Bugsy out and about - 77 degrees in Dayton today

[Jim_Gruber]

So culprit discovered. Loose Lug Nuts. Less 1) - Check the obvious things first 2) Pulled drum, Brake shoes totally sopped with rear end 90wt Lubes oil. Axle seal appears to be leaking. 3) 207 FF Sealed Bearings did not make a difference here, going back to traditional bearings, 4) Any recommendations on Axle Seals. Ordered new from Moss and I removed spring before installing and then replaced spring. Ordered new again along with Shoes, Bearings, Lock washer Tabs etc. 5) Any Tips on sealing this better 6) I tried brown paper bag gasket and Hylomar both sides. Just didn't do it. Will go back in with MOSS thicker gasket material.7) Lug nuts were very loose on both sides. I attribute that to oil getting on wheel studs. So lesson learned to all, as part of Spring Commissioning, double check all of your Lug Nuts and tighten those babies tight before you begin driving season.


On another good note, my new engine is on an engine stand so I can paint it and install Gerard's Rear Seal Kit before the 5 speed goes in. Somn Progress forward and 2 steps back..

 

[Gerard]

Jim, I don't see any mention of O-rings between the axle flange and hub. Don't reuse old ones, especially if they are no longer round in profile (cross-section). If recently replaced with new, they are OK to reuse.

So culprit discovered. Loose Lug Nuts. Less 1) - Check the obvious things first 2) Pulled drum, Brake shoes totally sopped with rear end 90wt Lubes oil. Axle seal appears to be leaking. 3) 207 FF Sealed Bearings did not make a difference here, going back to traditional bearings, 4) Any recommendations on Axle Seals. Ordered new from Moss and I removed spring before installing and then replaced spring. Ordered new again along with Shoes, Bearings, Lock washer Tabs etc. 5) Any Tips on sealing this better 6) I tried brown paper bag gasket and Hylomar both sides. Just didn't do it. Will go back in with MOSS thicker gasket material.7) Lug nuts were very loose on both sides. I attribute that to oil getting on wheel studs. So lesson learned to all, as part of Spring Commissioning, double check all of your Lug Nuts and tighten those babies tight before you begin driving season.


On another good note, my new engine is on an engine stand so I can paint it and install Gerard's Rear Seal Kit before the 5 speed goes in. Somn Progress forward and 2 steps back..

 

[Jim_Gruber]

O rings were in there and they were new with Hylomar as well. The DS bearing surface on end was scored and I added a Speedi Seleve on DS. I would think that would have tightened up the gap and make it seal better. Sleeve fit right on with tool and was simple to install. Are there any better axle seals out there?

 

[RickF]

Jim,

Loose lugnuts will allow the axle to leak. O-ring, gasket, and hylomar will not stop the leak if the lugnuts are loose. Clean everything up, put it back together, and tighten the lugnuts. I bet your leak is gone.

 

[Gerard]

Yes, I was going to add that you should make sure to snug the axle screw (did you use one?) down well and then put the lug nuts on backward and tighten them, either with or without the drum on, then snug up the axle screw. Do the same with the drum screws. You should have a single hole in the drum that aligns with the single axle screw. If you orient the drum correctly, you can still access that screw with the drum on. I guarantee you'll get a half or full turn on those if you do it that way.

Jim,

Loose lugnuts will allow the axle to leak. O-ring, gasket, and hylomar will not stop the leak if the lugnuts are loose. Clean everything up, put it back together, and tighten the lugnuts. I bet your leak is gone.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

I will give that a try. I'm sure that was part of the issue as those screws were loose as well. ****, No wonder it all came apart and leaked like a sieve. In fact on the PS the heads on the two drum Set Screws were bent at 45 degrees. I needed to tighten down more. OK going back together with new parts and done up tight.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Would anyone suggest something other than using Hylomar to seal things together with? Or just make sure the set screws are cranked down as tight as possible.

 

[hcallaway]

I just used new O Rings and no sealant. Clean surfaces and stock gaskets and make sure the axles are snug.
I was told you can try different sealants but almost everyone has different success rates.
It seems like I wet the gaskets and then pressed them flat to make sure there were not any creases.

 

[RickF]

Would anyone suggest something other than using Hylomar to seal things together with? Or just make sure the set screws are cranked down as tight as possible.

I like Permatex "Aviation Form-A-Gasket". Works well, I've been using it for over 50 years and have better luck with it than the silicone based sealers.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

A thought occurred to me last night. Why did Lug Nuts come loose and why did all my seals open up? I am using Acorn Style Lug Nuts with my 8 Spoke Wheels. When I first put these new wheels on the car I had maybe 3-4 threads I would be able to grab as the JBW Wheels are much thicker than stock wheels and so I added longer wheel studs, IIRC 1.5" long but need to measure. In the front I needed to add a 1/8" Wheel spacer to be able to get things cranked down tight. The rears looked like they would be ok without a wheel spacer but I may be running into an issue where the Acorn Nut is bottoming out before it is completely tight. I'll try and measure tonight but if so that could explain whey things came loose. Will be curious to check the fronts tonight to see if they remained tight.

 

[Gerard]

I have done axles using Hylomar for a couple decades, probably 2 dozen times or more and never had a leak or failure. I don't think I've ever had a car, mine or someones else's I'm working on that has ever been done right. The key, as least the way I do it is to wire wheel both mating surfaces and then wipe down with a degreaser .he benefit of Hylomar is that you can reposition or take things apart if need without tearing up the gaskets. If a "redo is in order, it's much easier to start over because it comes apart cleanly. I personally dislike silicone for most applications. Whatever you use, "sparingly" is always the best convention. Hylomar only needs a very thin application, others should be handled similarly.

From the factory, I don't think sealant was ever used at all.

Would anyone suggest something other than using Hylomar to seal things together with? Or just make sure the set screws are cranked down as tight as possible.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Any thoughts on the Acorn Nut bottoming out on the wheel stud. It's close and I could change to traditional Lug Nuts but it doesn't look nearly as nice as the Acorn Type Nuts. Will measure tonight to see if a Wheel Spacer would solve the issue and to determine if I am bottoming out with inside of Acorn Nut hitting the end of the stud before it is totally tight,

i

I have done axles using Hylomar for a couple decades, probably 2 dozen times or more and never had a leak or failure. I don't think I've ever had a car, mine or someones else's I'm working on that has ever been done right. The key, as least the way I do it is to wire wheel both mating surfaces and then wipe down with a degreaser .he benefit of Hylomar is that you can reposition or take things apart if need without tearing up the gaskets. If a "redo is in order, it's much easier to start over because it comes apart cleanly. I personally dislike silicone for most applications. Whatever you use, "sparingly" is always the best convention. Hylomar only needs a very thin application, others should be handled similarly.

From the factory, I don't think sealant was ever used at all.

 

[Gerard]

Should be able to easily confirm with a dial or digital caliper... Are these tapered or shouldered? If tapered, could be the incorrect angle; if shouldered, see if you can get thicker washers. Otherwise, maybe you could grind back the ends of the studs a little... sounds like you might not need much if they are too long.

Any thoughts on the Acorn Nut bottoming out on the wheel stud. It's close and I could change to traditional Lug Nuts but it doesn't look nearly as nice as the Acorn Type Nuts. Will measure tonight to see if a Wheel Spacer would solve the issue and to determine if I am bottoming out with inside of Acorn Nut hitting the end of the stud before it is totally tight,

i

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Gerard, Double checked. Thread are 1" deep on 1 7/8" studs. I've got at least a 1/4" of extra length to go. Its not running out of threads the was the problem. I need to crank down with extra nuts under the lug nuts as spacers, compress everything and then crank down the set screw to hold axle in place in place and then add the brake drum, again crank down with extra nuts under the lug nuts compress the entire assembly and then add new set screws. I found set screws that fit with Allen head rather than posidrive and I think I can get a whole lot more torque on those set screws. Thanks to all for the help.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Bugsy is all now back together. Bearings and Axle Seals replaced, New Brake Shoes and I used the Double Nut method as shown in pics above to clamp things down and tighten everything before tightening the set screws. Don't be like me and count on the set screws to pull it all together. Itr will not wonk and will come apart. Strange noises in the rear end are now gone. A little bit on engine paint and damper pulley and Bugsy is ready to go and get his engine swapped out.