Bugsy II - Planning Welding - I need some advice

[Jim_Gruber]

Guys spent some time in Bugsy II today taking pics and looking at quality of welding work done 33 years ago. Not happy with what I need to fix and will need advice from this team on how best to address. I 'm sure I can't get all of the pics in a single post so this may take a post or two. I'll number the pics so if you respond please refer to the picture number.

1) Passenger Side - Bulkhead Repair

Questions about the repair panel, has major spot welds 1/2" size on back side. Given the location next to spring box do I need more on this side
Inner sill now spot welded, I believe it should be. Comments

2) Closeup of inner sill - PS

3) PS Bulkhead - Bulkhead to floor gap

3)

Bulkhead is not welded and has a 3"+gap where not welded to the floor. Repair not properly done. Again this one makes me nervous seeing it is alongside the spring box. Thinking cleanup with wire wheel, try and get it shinny and then a piece of not angle iron but a fairly heavy gauge steel approx. 1 1/2 on each side to strengthen this sea mand close up.
Also of concern is some rust under reinforcement brace that goes on bulkhead floor. The vertical panel is welded at the top so I can't just pull off and nuts are really in there almost appear to be welded. A PITA to remove. How best to address. Cutting wheel and remove and replace the brace. Need some thoughts.

More to follow in next thread.

 

[AN5Sprite]

Jim,

I don't mean to be out of line but I can't be the only one here thinking this:

Have you considered moving this car down the road and restoring the one you just picked up instead?

In the longer run, it'll be easier to deal with original decrepitude than undoing/redoing other peoples mistakes.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

In the longer run, it'll be easier to deal with original decrepitude than undoing/redoing other peoples mistakes.

Amen.
However, I'd suggest stripping the paint off the other tub for inspection. You may find some prior patch work in it as well.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Trevor, Steve,

This one is superior to the other BE I believe. Bugsy III got picked up, and rolled into the garage at the lake and I left. It turned out to be a very long day that day and it was something like 15 degrees. I have not been back to look at it since. I am planning on going down here to unload the car, it is stuffed with all sorts of things to get a good look at WTH I purchased. I do know the bonnet is better on that car than Bugsy II and plan is to swap out. In fact Bugsy II's bonnet is already down there as I needed room to work in the garage here. I can verify though from reaching under Bugsy III that spring mounting plate underneath is rusted through and I can touch the top mounting plate from below. At least I think that is what I'm touching. I do believe Bugsy III will at least need floors in the back. Tub though, Trevor I believe to be in good shape. I will be going down to the cottage once it gets a little warmer with floor jack and jackstands so I can get a good look underneath, take some pics, and evaluate what I bought with that car. It could turn out that Bugsy III is the better car.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Any thoughts on Picture #3 on fixing the floor gap by the PS Spring box.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

I'd clean the floor there down to shiny metal. I'm wondering if the patched the floor around the spring plate. Once you see what happened there, then you can decide how to patch the bulkhead.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

The brace overlay plate is now welded at the top of the bulkhead. Would need to cut it out to remove but thinking I need to look at the floor underneath assuming I can get those bolts out.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

What I think happened ... the floors were rusted out so someone patched the floors with the spring plates in place. The floor panel extends further to shut the underside of the bulkhead. The spring plate is spot welded though the floor and to the spring box. That reinforcement part that runs up the bulk head is spot welded all along to attach it to the spring box. It is no small feat to remove. If you remove it, then you might consider just redoing the bulkhead and spring boxes.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Bulkhead was totally redone on DS I'll post pics from the trunk side so folks can see the repairs that were done.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

DS is the only side I have a good picture of. Just realized I do not have a good picture of the PS. Spring was never removed. so looks like they replaced the shut panel on the PS and never removed the spring.

From inside the cockpit. Repaired DS floors and bulkhead

 

[Rut]

X2 on Trevor's comments and the bulkhead really needs to be done correctly since it and the shut panel are structural for the spring hangers. The repair/replacement braces come ready to be bolted in, but the bolts are for alignment only. Once you start reassembly of the repair parts it's best to screw it together and then weld, add the braces, bolt together and weld. You can use the holes you drilled to remove the bottom spring plate to puddle weld in stages since you have multiple layers.
Rut

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Time to reassess how to approach this one. Got it get engine and tranny out, pull out rear end and springs and see just how cad it is under there. Don't make me panic any more guys. There is a whole lot of pretty solid metal under there. Will take a few days with wire wheel and flapper disk to see just exactly what I've got. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[Rut]

Jim,
the process is a pita, but like any welding project you need to clean the parts, spray with weld thru primer to give you a little more time (before rust) and assemble. The bulkhead and shut panel repair are pretty straight forward and since the floor pan is not installed you have access to the inside. I bought a full bulkhead and cut the pieces I needed, fit them and used self tapping screws to hold it together. I then fit the floor pan and used screws to hold it in place and I used a piece of angle iron mounted to the floor along the outer edge to keep it straight. Screw the pan in and then you drill the holes for the bulkhead brace, floor pan, floor stiffener, and spring plate. Bolt it together loosely and adjust until it fits. If I could do it over I would order the full floor pan for a much easier fit and cleaner look.
Rut

 

[Hot Wings]

Time to reassess how to approach this one. Got it get engine and tranny out, pull out rear end and springs and see just how cad it is under there. Don't make me panic any more guys. There is a whole lot of pretty solid metal under there. Will take a few days with wire wheel and flapper disk to see just exactly what I've got. Thanks for the ideas.

If you are going to this much work dismantling have you considered electrolytic rust removal (dipping)? This is something that can be done by the amateur in the home garage without too much difficulty - considering the size of a Sprite. You wouldn't need to dip the whole thing, just build a temporary tub out of 2x4's and plastic sheet to soak the bottom 8 to 16 inches or so. The same temporary pool can be used for subsequent phosphoric acid spray and rinse.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

Guys you've given me far more work then I had ever considered. Rut I would love to start over and do this totally right but I don't have unlimited time or budget to complete this project. I need to dig in and assess what can be saved and reused and what will require replacement without reinventing the wheel. Putting in a complete floor plan sounds really daunting when trying to think about rear end alignment and suspension considerations. I'm sure when this restoration was done 30+ years ago, whole floor pans and even full bulkheads may not have been available. I need to focus on time to repair and complete and getting project back on the road and driving. Bugsy I went to a new owner in April. It's been 10 months since I've been in a Sprite and the prospect of this project going multiple years is discouraging to say the least.

More re research and time with grinding wheel and other tools of mass destruction will be needed over the next few weeks before the direction of this journey will be clear. If it means full bulkhead and floors so be it. But more time grinding and researching is needed. Thanks team for the help.