Need some advice on a Porsche??????

[Earl]

My son and I are just finishing up our rebuild of my 61 TR3A. It's been a great project and we've had a great time. This site has provided a good deal of advice thats helped a lot. Now I'd like to ask a non Triumph question. We are looking at project cars for this summer and we are looking at a couple of Porsche 924s. I've never worked on one and know nothing about reliability and parts availability. I've checked some Porsche web sites but I'd like some opinions from you guys because of past experience.
Advice on parts cost, is a turbo model any more problem than non turbo, etc? Thanks for any info.
Earl

 

[jwbaker]

I do not know much about the 924 Porsche. I have owned 3 911 Porsche cars. A 1969, 1971, and a 1985. I did a total restoration on the 1971. In my opinion if you want to spend the time and money it takes to refurbish or restore one stick with a 356 or 911.

 

[DNK]

I think they refer to a 924 as a VW

 

[Guest]

I'd go 356, 912 or early 911 too. The 924 is not going to be worth the effort. As has been said, it's the VW Porsche - Porsche spares cost, VW performance.

 

[Steve]

Now, further to what has gone before, I would like to add a few comments about these cars. The 924 is a good little car, admittedly a little down on performance unless you go with the Turbo or the 924S. Different animal altogether. In fact the 944 was pretty much a development of the 924S, same (Porsche) engine.

Reliability of the cars is good, parts availability is very good, and they are reasonable to work on. As with all Porsches, watch for uneven panel gaps, as all cars were spot-on when they left the factory, so any uneven gaps signal accident repairs. Aso, cars were galvanised from the factory, and any pattern body panels used are unlikely to be galvanised, so rust then becomes an issue. Of the front-engined Porsches, the post-1986 944 model is probably the best one to go for. With all due respect to the 356, 912 or early 911, they are getting rather pricey now.

 

[rporter]

I never have owned a Porsche but I have looked at them when my wife was not around. My research says go for a 1987-1989 3.2 Carrera with the G50 transmission and no sunroof and no spolier unless you just want it. Run do not walk from Targas because they leak. Buy the best you can find and afford and do not go the restoration route. Should be about $25,000.00 plus. Earlier is too pricy and later is too fancy. Just my opinion but that is what I would do if I could get away with it.

 

[Guest]

If cash is an issue then you probably shouldn't be looking at a Porsche regardless of model (except maybe a 914, and even then try getting a true 914-6 at reasonable money).

Given my druthers I'd get a 930 slantnose turbo, you'll never take a bath unless you buy wrong, but then that wasn't the question.

If you want something that you can get pieces on to work on, then a 924 is ok. You'll spend a lot more than it's worth fixing it up. It will make restoring a Triumph seem like a fiscally prudent move in comparison. My point about the 912/356/70's 911 is exactly that they are getting more valuable. If you can find a reasonable restoration prospect then you stand a chance of not losing your shirt, underwear and the whole rest of your wardrobe.

If you want a Porsche for fun and money is an issue at all, go get an early Boxster with fsh. A restoration prospect is $$$$ regardless of model, a 924 isn't the best bet unless it's true disposable cash. Sorry.

 

[frankenstang57]

If you're looking a P-car(German Lawn Art= GLA(tm)), and 924's to boot, you need a 924S. Almost the same as a 944. It has the same motor, trans, brakes, interior, just no body flares. Heck, the doors, hood, glass, and just about any else non fender related is the same. One of my good friends is into 'em. He has a 924S, 944T, and a SBC powered 944. I actually installed the motor in the 924S and it wasn't too bad. The T-belt's can be killers if the break. The water pump can take out a motor as well, since it runs off of on of the T-belts. I know that the pre "S" 24's doors had a tendancy to fall off due to the hinges pulling off the body. If you are intrested, my buddy wants to get rid of the 924S. It's definately worthwhile fixing in my book. He needs the space. PM me if you are intrested and I'll give you the lowdown. Oh yeah, and transport would not be an issue since I'll be headin' out that way in a week!

 

[sammyb]

I'd stay away from the 924. Basically, here's the deal -- they are underpowered and not worth much. The 944 is a better performing car in every respect, and it's not much more. The 924 was designed by VW, and the 944 is much more of a pure Porsche. While structurally it is very similar to the 924, it is wider and more aggressive.

The 944's engine is a slant four -- not a VW unit, rather one half of the 928's V8. It is gutless below 4000RPMs, but once it reaches 4500RPM, hold on!

Handing is outstanding on the 944 -- and the larger wheels/tires make it better than the 924. It is an easier car to drive hard than a 911.

The other option is a 928, which is more GT than sports car. I happen to think they are fun and very comfortable.

In terms of pricing, you can pick up a 924 for under $1000, and I bought an '85 944 for $850. With a starter and a clutch slave, it was a good runner. (Cost for both parts $200 combined.) Late '85 was an interior change, so post 85 1/2 cars are worth slightly more. But $2500 for a 944 is not uncommon. Turbos are still much more.

928s can be had for under $5,000 now.

Here are the issues: 944s - TIMING BELTS, TIMING BELTS, TIMING BELTS. Kids buy these cars and neglect to change the belts. One day BOOM, the engine is toast. With fluid changes and timing belt changes, the engines can last 300,000 miles. Transmissions are notorious for trouble. Besides being very rubbery, they'll wear out -- especially third gear.

928s have fuel pump issues and electrical issues. Can be very costly to maintain. My buddy bought a "good running" one for $4500, and within three months had another $5000 into it. Interiors are expensive to put right, and dash covers seem to always split.

I'd vote for a good 85 or 86 944. Fun rides.

 

[Simon TR4a]

I tend to agree with Sammy that all the work and money you put into a 924 is unrecoverable as the values will remain low for the forseeable future.
On the other hand, I have driven a 944, and was strongly reminded of the Nissan 240Z, so if the 944 is not affordable something Japanese might make a good alternative, giving you better performance than a 924, and a better shot at recovering part of your investment when you sell it!
(Insert the usual warnings about rust here.)

The other "budget" Porsche is the 914, which in the smaller engine forms is pretty inexpensive, and likely also a better option.
All the above to be taken as opinions rather than facts, by the way!
Simon.

 

[Steve]

My brother recently picked up a nice 1986 911 Cabrio, higher miles but in good shape and a service record, for the low teens.

 

[Earl]

Thanks folks. Went on ebay and checked out some 944s. Found a nice looking one in my price range. There must be some serious karma in this board. I'm taking my son back to college this Friday. The car is in his college town, less than 5 miles from his dorm. We have an appointment to see and test drive the 944.
Thanks
Earl

 

[sammyb]

Earl --
Just make sure that the tranny doesn't pop out, the timing belt has been changed recently and that there's no accident or rust damage. Check the oil for coolant (milky look) and the coolant for oil. The engine shouldn't smoke at all. Other than that, they're pretty robust. Interiors are expensive to replace, so make sure it isn't trashed...but you'll also be surprised how seemingly deep stains will come out with a little degreaser. (I use Olio, but Simple Green works too...the carpets are so well made, the stains just don't seem to set in.)

 

[swift6]

Then of course there is always this line of thought.

https://www.renegadehybrids.com/LS-1/ls1conversionkit.html

LS1 V8 into the 924S-968. Stays within 1% of the Porsche weight distribution. 300hp, 350lb-ft, no body work modifications required.

I do have to say that hearing a V8 growl from one of those Porsches would make me look twice.


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[sammyb]

As a guy who was often obliterated by a Porsche 968 while driving a C5 Corvette at Autocross, I don't think there's much need in doing an engine swap. With a good set of tires and a good driver, a Porsche 944-968 can be a really impressive sports car, capable of beating just about anything, provided that the only measure isn't 0-60 (or 1/4 mile.)

 

[DrEntropy]

Can you say "Hazette", "Zelenda", Saltus"??

If you think about the $$ for the purchase/restoration of a "Pork-Chop" think too of the outlay for the various 'special' tools you'll need to do the job. My "formal" wrench training was at Lanham, MD: V.O.A... I've Porsche tools enough to embarrass meself (you see what cars I own!). As has been eloquently stated here, 924's aren't 'real' Porche's, a good 944 would be much better... and don't get a "restorable" exmple unless you plan on a lifetime project (well, that may be overstating a *bit*... but not MUCH) and spending th' kids' inheritance on it too. Good mid '80's 911's are available in the $20K range and well worth it... Don't buy WORK when it comes to Porsches unless you KNOW the cars.

BTW: 928 = German Camaro. Better off with th' "Real Thing."

Just my tuppence worth.

Question: "Hey Ollie, I'm workin' on a 928... what colour is the wire for the ECM input for th' O2 sensors??"

Answer: "Geez, Stan, same colour as ALL the rest of the wires... Brown, of course!"

Some will appreciate and understand...

 

[Kwenak]

This is Earl's son. And thanks a head of time for all your guy's help. I have a question about the change made in '85. Was it just an interior change, or did they do something to the performance of the car as well? And I have to admit.... that ever since my dad and I test drove the '86 944 turbo .... its all I've been thinking about /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif So any other tid bits of advice would be much appreciated. Thanks again guys. You've always been a big help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[swift6]

A Porsche list would probably be your best bet to get into the real specifics of those questions. When I have questions about my stepdads 911C4 and his 928 I usually find very good help on the Rennlist.

https://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/

Give these guys a shot and see if they can be of help. Also, if you pick one up a Porsche list would ultimately be more helpful than those of use that suffer the LBC disease. Although I'm sure we will all still be willing to help where we can.

Good luck.


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[sammyb]

There were many changes in '85 (actually mid-1985.) The largest, of course, is ditching the 924 interior. There are, however, many additional changes. While it doesn't really affect performance, as I remember parts like starters, headlight motor, clutch slave are sometimes pre-85 1/2 or post '85 1/2. Fundamentally, the cars drive the same, but 85 1/2 cars are a little more valuable for the better interiors.

Turbos are obviously the best (next to a 968-spec) but you can buy an earlier 911 (70s) for the cost of a good 944 turbo.

 

[Steve]

I would recommend the book "Original Porsche 924/944/968" by Peter Morgan. That would tell you much of what you need to know.