Lunatic LBC Prices

[Sarastro]

Nothing new about unrealistic asking prices, I know, but I seem to see quite a bit more of these over the last few months. This is especially surprising in view of the economic situation. Some examples:

Would you pay $3750 for this bugeye?

How about $10,000 for this MGA? It's local, and I'd like to consider it for a project, but no way am I going to offer what it's worth and be accused of "low-balling."

Here's a nice MGA, but is it worth $36,000?

Or $9300 for this Spitfire "Spider"?

The purple Midget still on eBay, which has inspired a thread here, is another example. These cars often remain listed for sale for months and the owners don't reduce their prices. You'd think they'd get the idea.

I'm not sure what's going on. One possibility is that the economy has enticed many people to put that old car up for sale, and they are either desperate or just way too optimistic. Another is that they are depending on the NADA guides, which are sometimes OK but often wildly unrealistic, and, in any case, give retail asking prices.

Any thoughts or insight?

 

[jhorton3]

It always amazes me how much people will ask for cars. I suspect a lot of these owners bought high, and now that the market is soft they want to recoup their losses. They probably think their stock portfolios should work the same way.

The Internet allows us to see more of these high priced examples than we use to. The other influence I suspect is the number of auto auctions that are constantly on TV. Someone sees a mint condition Bugeye roll across the stand and sell for $25-30K, and they think the Mouse Motel with "custom see-through floor panels" in their garage just increased in value by $5K.

Those of us that are true to these cars and the hobby understand that a majority of these are labor of love efforts. We may never get out of them what we invest from a monetary perspective. What we gain though are life experiences, being able to put our skills to the best of our ability, or learning new ones. The best is finding like minded people who share the dream and passion, whether you're rolling across the lawn at Pebble Beach, or sitting on a milk crate in a rusted hulk with the engine of your imagination at red line.

There are still examples of bargains out there. Nothing has changed about them. You have to be at the right place, at the right time, with the right amount of cash.

 

[Mio]

many people to put that old car up for sale, and they are either desperate or just way too optimistic.

Hi Steve,
Within the field of psychology there is what is known as the Lake Wobegon effect wherein people have a tendency to rate themselves as above average on virtually any favorable attribute (e.g., intelligence, driving, etc.). The same phenomenon arguably applies to possessions wherein individuals draw the very fallacious conclusion that their car is worth more than average (sometimes considerably more). Add to this the tenets of prospect theory such that people are extremely loss aversive. Indeed, the pain of a financial loss is (from a psychological vantage point) twice that of the satisfaction associated with a financial gain. What occurs is that someone that has spent a given amount of money for a unique old car expects to get a return on their expenditure notwithstanding the fact that, in some cases, they have done little more than own it. Let's also not forget issues related to human pride and how that can lead to inflated asking prices as people add sentimental value to fair market value.

Mike

 

[glemon]

Steve, I too have been watching prices, expecting them to come down a little with the economy, selling prices seem to be holding steady, and as noted asking prices seem to be going way up if anything.

Maybe more are putting prices higher because they "need the money" and not because of the value of the car.

 

[Sarastro]

Yes, good thoughts, guys.

I suspect that all these have an effect, to some degree or another. I'm not lusting after a bargain; I don't mind, and fully expect, to pay a reasonable price for whatever I buy. But I'm more than a little perplexed by this phenomenon of ridiculously high asking prices, and lots of them. Can't help but wonder what's going on.

 

[walshja]

Someone sees a mint condition Bugeye roll across the stand and sell for $25-30K, and they think the Mouse Motel with "custom see-through floor panels" in their garage just increased in value by $5K.

hysterical !!!

 

[cdsmith]

Well...

There are always idiots like me that;

1) Wanted one - a Bug Eye was always a dream car of mine! (Actually I have a list of dream cars - this one I could afford!. A Ford Cobra, Dino Ferrari, 1972 Porsche 911 Carrera RS,... are not a reality considering my finances)

2) Found one - actually a friend found it and did most of the leg work getting information about it - nice guy!

3) Buy one (totally my fault).... I paid too much for the car I bought (I even knew it at the time), but I did not (and still do not) suffer from "Buyers Remorse".

4) $3750 for that Bug Eye? Maybe not, but then again I already have one, so....

My $0.02...

cd

 

[walshja]

I paid $5k for mine last year, and like you, I have no buyers remorse.

I'm sure I could have shopped around for a better deal, but this car was only 20 minutes away from me, and I did what a car buyer should NEVER do, fall in love with the car before you start negotiating !!!

I made the same mistake when I purchase my 1993 Mazda RX-7. I'm very surprised the dealer didn't raise the price after seeing how much I fell in love with the car !!!

 

[JPSmit]

In light of the above conversation, thought you might enjoy the comments of the editor of my Orlando MG club about Ms Triss.

<span style="font-style: italic">"John-Peter Smit, who escaped to Canada with, Ms Triss, his little MG Midget a couple of years ago, sent us a note to say that he misses us and send along photos of his now running and painted Baby. From the photos, it looks like he has joined the ranks of the proud, yet broke, owners of newly restored MGs. You do remember, this was a free car and you get what you pay for." </span>

 

[Silverghost]

Here's a thought that just hit me:

John Q. Public managed to survive the recent trends with a few extra $$ in their pocket. JQ has always wanted an older collector car but never really researched the one they want. Now everyone is talking about hard times, buyers market, etc. and decides to go looking while the looking is "good". JQ sees the prices advertised and "thinks they are getting a bargain - thinks they can buy for X now and sell for x plus y when the economy gets better and bites on the car.

A possible scenario........

 

[JPSmit]

I've watched and dreamed of cars for years and have come to a few conclusions.

1. (and most obvious) the most expensive cars will always be the car the guys with the money loved when they were 18. The guys with the money are always in their mid 50's - early 60's thus now late 60's muscle cars are the one.

2. There are at least 3 tiers of car prices. a) people who think whatever they own is priceless - old cars, old furniture etc. etc. and b) people who are in clubs and the hobby who know what cars are really worth and c) people who don't know what they are worth and/or just want rid of their cars (or want them to go to a good home)

3. Every hobbyest (2) wants to buy from #3 then #2 and complains about #1. Every person from (1) wants to sell to someone who doesn't know about #2 or #3.

Any friends I know who want into the hobby I urge to join a club to learn the value of what they are looking for. after that we just watch the people looking for silly money. witness the ebay purple car that many here have been chuckling about for months.

I know a lot of the people selling the cars for silly prices are in no hurry to sell. they put a crazy price and if it goes, it goes, but if not, that's OK - we have a few houses in our neighbourhood for sale like that also. I think we all know at least one person who (unknowingly) paid stupid money for something they could have had for much less.

It's a peculiar thing this free market

 

[vagt6]

The purple (aconite) Midget is for sale by a used car dealer, they aren't the best source for buying an LBC since they sell at top retail. The dealer has lowered his price over the past few months, though.

I dunno about the nutty pricing. Seems that the concourse examples have always been exorbitantly priced. The most popular cars have been expensive, and rising, for years now. Big Healeys (<span style="font-style: italic">totally crazy </span>pricing); MGAs (worth $35K?? NOPE!); E-type Jags (coo-coo prices), even TR-6s have risen into the twenty thousand range for concourse examples, even $30,000!

I don't know about you, but IMHO no TR-6 is "worth" $25,000.

On the other hand, plenty of LBCs seem underpriced IMHO. How about one of the greats, the MGB? Lovely ones can be had for less than $15,000, even $10,000. Midgets; Sprites; Spitfires (very cheap); Sunbeam Alpines (lovely cars), others.

If you have a Bugatti budget, great! Go get one. But if you've only got about $10K or less, you've got practically an universe of choices for a nice LBC. They are out there, if you look.

 

[Sarastro]

Good point, Mark, about the opposite situation: really good values on some cars, especially the MGB. I've seen very respectable drivers sell around $5-6K. The GTs are an even better value; I think that most people want a roadster, not a coupe, so this depresses their prices. I think they are very handsome cars, though, and probably more practical here in LA, where you really need to be able to lock up a car when it's parked.

Several decent-looking MG Midgets have been listed on the LA Craigslist recently for below $3K. Not listed any more, which tells you something. On the other hand, I see some overpriced ones that stay listed month after month. Price it rationally, and it sells.

 

[vagt6]

You're right on about accurate sales pricing, Steve.

I've always kept up with the sales venues for LBC, it's kinda a hobby to follow eBay, Hemmings, Collector Car, Jaxed, etc. However, I've been on the lookout for an LBC roadster so I'm really focusing on the sales venues.

As Steve says, above, possibly the best pricing on any LBC at the moment is the MGBGT, no doubt about it. I've seen near-perfect examples going for $7-$10K lately. For example, John Twist sold a rotisserie-restored '67 (the best year IMHO-metal dash) for about $10K on eBay. The car was better than new. That's a heckuva deal, you can't do better. Ida bought it, but I want a roadster this time around.

It also appears to me that MGB pricing may have descended a bit in the past several months. This may be related to the sheer number of MGBs in the markeplace, and there certainly is an increase. Have any of you guys noted this?

I've also seen an abnormal number of TR-6s for sale (just look at eBay right now), but the pricing has not eroded significantly. This is probably related to the cost to restore them, which has increased over the years and is not cheap (as all of you guys who've restored them know very well!).

Other models seem to be keeping their value.

In the end, it seems the status quo remains similar: the LBCs that were expensive ten years ago remain relatively valuable. And, the cheapo models (Spridgets; Spits; GT6s; Alpines, etc.) are still at relatively bargain prices.

I have no crystal ball, but I think bargains will continue for many LBCs in the near future.

Anyone have that crystal ball on the LBC marketplace? :confuse:

 

[64rocksprite]

My personal favorite is a BE bonnet for sale that is more than most Spridgets I have seen that are in driver-shape.
There is a '73 DRIVER Midget near me and the guy just sent me an e-mail to say that he dropped the price to $2K..wires and no rust..man, if I can only convince the boss! gotta get my '63 DONE so I have room in the garage!!