77 Corvette...Frame issues

[R6MGS]

I posted this on the Corvette forum, but I always like to give the ole BCF a shot:

I am looking at a 77 right now; the oringinal owner was told that the car has frame issues....I am no expert and I am not sure how bad it really is. The owner gave me some pics, and although he missed some of the key areas this gives a general idea of the condition of the frame. The rest of the car is very good oringal paint, full documentation....I'd appreciate your opinions on how bad this really is, and how much it will take to get it repaired.

 

[kennypinkerton]

I see a lot of surface rust with some heavy scaling on some pieces, but it could be just that - surface rust. How's the fiberglass?

 

[R6MGS]

Fiberglass is beautiful...With a little rubbing compound it will look brand new on the outside.
The Corvette guys tell me it's pretty bad...Most noticable in those pics is the inner rocker sill...In pic #2 you can see it's pretty rotted behind that aluminium plate.
Also these cars have a 'birdcage' around windsheild frame and cockpit...Usually if the frame is bad then that is rotted too.....i am just trying to find out how much it would cost to get the frame replaced as I can probably get the car pretty cheap.

 

[kennypinkerton]

If everything else is up to snuff, and you're willing to do a frame replacement... Might be "the one" for you.

 

[Bob Claffie]

Major issue on these things is the mounting points for the rear trailing arms. Rust at the frame right near the ends of the doors is a bad sign. (Haven't seen your pictures). Good used frames can be had for a couple grand but it's not a weekend job. Bob

 

[R6MGS]

After getting alot of good advice from the Corvette forum members I've decided to pass this one up. At first I thought, like Kenny, it was just surface rust....But once the right areas were pointed out to me my opinion quickly changed.

 

[sammyb]

Here's the kicker question: What is the asking price?

Keep in mind that the 1977 is tied for the second-least desirable year of Corvette (with 1976 -- just ahead of the 1975 which had lower horsepower.)

The key with late-70s Corvettes are if they had the L82 engine and 4spd. Automatics and base engine cars (and the dreaded California cars) are not as desirable.

Because the car is fiberglass, frame integrity is paramount. An excessive amount of surface rust can indicate big problems in hidden areas, such as the area behind the seats and in front of the gas tank, as well as the windshield posts. Look for door sag.

The bottom line is: if there is any evidence of rust holes in the frame --- walk away. You should be targeting around $6,000 for a good rust-free, nice looking driver 1977. My friend bought a 1979 in Portland last weekend for $3000.

One more thing -- before buying ANY C3 Corvette, jack up the car and rock the rear wheels up and down -- any excessive play and that means rear wheel bearings -- a $1500-$2000 job (depending on where you take it.)

 

[R6MGS]

Thanks Sammy...My last 77 had a wheel bearing go....It was my first Corvette and I ended up replacing it myself, not a fun experience.

As for this Vette I could probably get it for $1000, maybe 2....The owner is scared to drive it and just wants it gone....doors do sag a bit....but I've seen MUCH worse.

One more question though...the area above the door hinges looks kinda 'messy' I remember my 73 being the same way....Is this just where they finish the fiberglass or something? Or is it something more sinister?

 

[sammyb]

It shouldn't be really messy. That can be a sign of previous damage, like a t-bone accident. By the late 70s, the fiberglass finishing was pretty good. Also, since the torque and horsepower were way down, you don't get engine-induced stress cracks as much as pre-1972. (My '69 had a big block and was a convertible, so every few months I'd notice another big crack in the paint from stress.)

 

[kennypinkerton]

Trust me... I have a fiberglass sailboat from the mid 60's that probably (by age and statistics) shouldn't even be useable at this point, but it has a very nice smooth finish (except at 2 spots along the upper hull where it has very obviously been patched)... and other than those spots, the finish is nearly what I would want to see on a NEW fiberglass bodied car. If there is a questionable section, it's time to start asking serious questions about them, and maybe even go to the 3 digit offer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[R6MGS]

I should clarify, I am not talking about the whole door jam....there is about an inch or so of open space between the underside of the front fender and the peice of the body that the door hinges mount to....On the very upper lip of the plate type peice that mounts the hinges is strip of 'mess'(I think there is an ID plate of some kind right below the area I am refering to)...look kinda like someone rubbed on some RTV with their finger and painted over it(but it doesn't feel like rtv)....I will ask the owner about any accidents, he seams to be a pretty honest guy(for whatever thats worth) he did tell me about the frame even before I came out to look at it.
I didn't see any stree cracks in the paint at all...that this is the original paint.
Would you drive the car as it is? Because in that case I could drive it around as is until I am finished my current project, then I wouldn't feel so bad about starting in on this one.

 

[kennypinkerton]

I drive most all the cars I've bought as-is.... after the engine, brakes, and clutch will work with absolute reliability... and I've driven them beyond reliability as far as brakes go - not recomended, but I've done it. After the first few drives, you should know where the main mechanical work needs done, and you can act accordingly.

Lowball on the bid though... sounds like it may needs lots of money to bring it back to reliable... and even more to restore.

I've seen and driven cars that I would drive, but would not recommend for others to even get into - because of safety issues. You should feel comfortable in your abilities to drive and rehab the car you are looking at. If you can drive it - cool. If you can rehab it... better. But if any of the two isn't there - walk.

 

[Steve P.]

Run like heck in the opposite direction from this car!!!

I know what I'm talking about here. Years ago I bought a
1978 (Silver Aniversary) Vette that had been rolled.
It has been by far the biggest money pit of a car I've
ever owned. Even after being completely restored, its
a poorly designed and built car. The only reason I've
kept it is because I've got so much money into it.

The cross member that the exhuast goes through is bent
and has been repaired. This is the weakest part of
the frame, and is the first to get tweeked. The bigger
problem from the pics is rust. These frames rust from
the inside out. If you go look at the car, look carefully
at the A-arms and mounting points as these are often
cracked. Have the owner drive it in a figure 8, and
watch the rear wheels. The rear suspension (IRS) has
a design problem that will allow one wheel to kick
out while the other goes vertical and vice versa.

I can go on and on about the problems with these cars...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif

 

[R6MGS]

Well I appricate the warning....I definatly agree with the part about it beign a terrible design...I've owned 2 and done nothing but curse them most of the time....But love them when they do work properly..
I am probably being stubborn...but just how bad is this frame? Will it hold together for a few years of driving till I am ready to replace the whole thing? Or is it gunna split in half(think the white convert in Gumball rally /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif )

 

[Steve P.]

Unlike most cars, the frame on Corvettes provides *all*
of the mechanical rigidity. The body contributes
nothing. Imagine going down the freeway and having the
frame split in half. Is that worth the risk?

Hey, I understand the need to get one. Look at my
list of toys. ;-) I'd suggest taking it to a place
that does frame repairs BEFORE you buy it and get
their opinion.

 

[R6MGS]

I am trying my best to resist it....something about a $1000 Corvette thats kinda like a moisquito to a bright light.

 

[Bob Claffie]

Sure it will last. If the radius arms still have their integrity it should go years. I have had two that "purists" would scrap because of frame rust. A '73 I had had a "C" frame from the radius mounts all the way back until I had a welder box it in. Also my '71 BB coupe had holes in the side rails I could stick my arm in. Both are still going and both owners are happy. Problem with your potential '77 is it would be real easy to end up with with a LOT more money in the car than it would ever be worth. Bob

 

[R6MGS]

I put in a real low ball-er......He said he's going to advertise it one more time....If it doesn't sell when the ad runs out then it's mine.....Kinda feeling indifferent about it....so we'll see how it goes.