MGA Synthetic oil??

[Bob Branson]

In college, I worked the lube rack at Houston's BMC dealer, and we used only 30W Valvoline non-detergent oil. Old-timer mechanics said the carbon "sealed" the engine and detergent would clean it off and make 'em smoke. I'm assuming that synthetic oil would be a bad thing in a rebuilt MGA, not the least reason being the leaks would probably be worse. Anyone have experience or thoughts?

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Old-timer mechanics... guess that would be US now! :wink:

Only thought I have is that the factory spec'd 20W50 and that's what I use. And the detergent (what little I suspect there is) helps keep buildup (sludge) from forming on the innards. And as for synthetic oil, I'm on the fence, but leery as to whether the seals in our LBCs can handle it effectively. I'm sticking with conventional.


Mickey

 

[Gliderman8]

I bought 10 quarts of synthetic VR1 20-50. Like Mickey I’ve been reluctant to put in my car. I’m still hooked on Brad Penn conventional oil. In fact I found a home for the synthetic oil that I have and will be giving it away this week.

 

[blueosprey90]

I run Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil for its ZDDP levels in my MGA. I try to run 30 weight, but will use 20-50 in a pinch. The engine builders say that one should break in on conventional (dyno) oil, but it is then OK to switch to synthetic. Of course, one has to consider whether the synthetic is good for our engines, because they most likely are low on ZDDP. The VR-1 Racing oil is a conventional oil.
See https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/faq/racing-oil-faq

 

[barneymg]

I have never used synthetic oil in anything. "Synthetic Blend" advertised as 50% synthetic is kind of a hoax, as normal motor oils these days are about 25% synthetic anyway.

I have a theory that lack of ZDDP is irrelevant, because when they remove ZDDP they add something else to serve the same purpose. It is almost impossible to buy a bad motor oil these days, since the quality is mandated by the auto manufacturers.

I also like to put my money where my mouth is, so about 20 years ago I started using the cheapest oil available at Walmart. It is their house brand "Super Tech" 20W50, and I have good results with it for hundreds of thousands of miles. A while back someone else decided to give it a try, and they looked up the spec's for it, and reported that, "It has plenty of ZDDP". Say what?

So I looked up the spec's, and sure enough it has 1300 PPM ZDDP. So now I have egg on my face, because I didn't prove that you don't need ZDDP. But I did show that you don't need to spend big money an anything special to get good serviceable motor oil.

As so happens, much of the ZDDP was removed from SOME oil to protect catalytic converters. Catalytic converters were introduced for the 1975 model year. Any car built after 1974 (with a CC) uses oil no heavier than 10W40. So they didn't have to remove the ZDDP from heavier oils. So it turns out the heavier oils, 15W40 and 20W50 never had the ZDDP removed, and it is apparently an industry wide standard. So when I buy the cheap oil at Walmart it has the full dose of ZDDP.

The engine currently in my MGA has over 300,000 miles on the crankshaft and main bearings and rocker shaft and rocker bushings. Only reason the rod bearing were changed is because of loss of oil from a failed oil cooler hose last Spring. Cylinder walls and camshaft and tappets have over 200,000 miles and still doing well. Pistons were changed again last Summer (after 200,000 miles) due to a broken top ring, but the cylinder walls are still okay, so I just honed it lightly and dropped in the new pistons and rings. I had to change the cylinder head four years ago, but the old one had been on three different engines in 20 years, something like 300,000 miles.

Cheap oil is good? Food for thought.

 

[Grantura_MKI]

It’s like beer! Everyone has their fav.

 

[DrEntropy]

I have a theory that lack of ZDDP is irrelevant, because when they remove ZDDP they add something else to serve the same purpose. It is almost impossible to buy a bad motor oil these days, since the quality is mandated by the auto manufacturers.

I also like to put my money where my mouth is, so about 20 years ago I started using the cheapest oil available at Walmart. It is their house brand "Super Tech" 20W50, and I have good results with it for hundreds of thousands of miles. A while back someone else decided to give it a try, and they looked up the spec's for it, and reported that, "It has plenty of ZDDP". Say what?

So I looked up the spec's, and sure enough it has 1300 PPM ZDDP. So now I have egg on my face, because I didn't prove that you don't need ZDDP. But I did show that you don't need to spend big money an anything special to get good serviceable motor oil.

Been saying similar for years. The spec's the S.A.E. & ASTM set HAVE to be met, otherwise it can't be on the shelf. Refineries make the product, sell it bulk to a lot of the brand-name retailers. The packaging is from the brand.

The 10w30 goes in the Toyota (converter). The rest run 20w50 of whatever's on sale.

 

[maynard]

Barney

Good to see . you on the forum. Missed at the club meetings.

You state: Any car built after 1974 (with a CC) uses oil no heavier than 10W40. My 78 B and my 94 XJS (both of which came with CCs) call for 20W50. Can you clarify?

 

[PigeonF16]

I have never used synthetic oil in anything. "Synthetic Blend" advertised as 50% synthetic is kind of a hoax, as normal motor oils these days are about 25% synthetic anyway.

I have a theory that lack of ZDDP is irrelevant, because when they remove ZDDP they add something else to serve the same purpose. It is almost impossible to buy a bad motor oil these days, since the quality is mandated by the auto manufacturers.

I also like to put my money where my mouth is, so about 20 years ago I started using the cheapest oil available at Walmart. It is their house brand "Super Tech" 20W50, and I have good results with it for hundreds of thousands of miles. A while back someone else decided to give it a try, and they looked up the spec's for it, and reported that, "It has plenty of ZDDP". Say what?

So I looked up the spec's, and sure enough it has 1300 PPM ZDDP. So now I have egg on my face, because I didn't prove that you don't need ZDDP. But I did show that you don't need to spend big money an anything special to get good serviceable motor oil.

As so happens, much of the ZDDP was removed from SOME oil to protect catalytic converters. Catalytic converters were introduced for the 1975 model year. Any car built after 1974 (with a CC) uses oil no heavier than 10W40. So they didn't have to remove the ZDDP from heavier oils. So it turns out the heavier oils, 15W40 and 20W50 never had the ZDDP removed, and it is apparently an industry wide standard. So when I buy the cheap oil at Walmart it has the full dose of ZDDP.

The engine currently in my MGA has over 300,000 miles on the crankshaft and main bearings and rocker shaft and rocker bushings. Only reason the rod bearing were changed is because of loss of oil from a failed oil cooler hose last Spring. Cylinder walls and camshaft and tappets have over 200,000 miles and still doing well. Pistons were changed again last Summer (after 200,000 miles) due to a broken top ring, but the cylinder walls are still okay, so I just honed it lightly and dropped in the new pistons and rings. I had to change the cylinder head four years ago, but the old one had been on three different engines in 20 years, something like 300,000 miles.

Cheap oil is good? Food for thought.

Barney,

Thanks for the info; I know this post is over a year old, but here goes.

I've been on your MGAGuru website, but where can I find out about general oil servicing questions for 1500 and 1600 MGA motors?

I'm the new guy on this site who just got a 1960 MGA and TR-3. I drove the MGA in college for a year (almost 40 years ago). I think it burned more oil than gasoline. I had to add oil with every tank of gas, and I was buying whatever the cheapest 10W40 was there.

Now that I have it again, I would like to get the engine running better without all the oil fuss. I can afford to do things now that I couldn't do back then. This is not a show car by any stretch. I will get it looking good again, but a 10 second look over by an expert will review lots of "whaaat?" Pink engine compartment, red trunk (boot), and white all over. When it runs, it runs great!

TIA,

Jon

EDIT: P.S. It's the same pink MGA in my profile photo. My dad cut the back end off and added the back end of a red MGA. I'm not sure if he used the fenders and doors from this pink one, but there is a full set of pink doors and fenders with all his stuff.

 

[barneymg]

Guess I don't get to visit this forum very often, but I do try to catch up occasionally.

Apparently the late model rubber bumper MGBs were still considered to be "trucks", using 20W50 oil because the engines were vintage design. My 1968 Austin America required 10W40 mult-viscosity detergent oil (very expensive at the time), because the automatic transmission ran in engine oil in the engine sump. The important point was that 15W40 and 20W50 oils still have the zinc in them, so you don't have to buy expensive specialty products.

The Engine Oil System section of my web site is here:

MG Engine Tech - Oil System

Got a fair mount of information on oil types there.

There was a long stretch of time when I ran 10W40 oil in everything I owned, from lawn mowers to vintage car to daily driver modern vehicles. Just a matter of convenience when one size fits all. When I began towing the trailer regularly (in 1990) I changed to 20W50 oil and installed the oil cooler (more than 400,000 miles back). But I would still use 10W40 oil in colder weather.

 

[Logistics]

In college, I worked the lube rack at Houston's BMC dealer, and we used only 30W Valvoline non-detergent oil. Old-timer mechanics said the carbon "sealed" the engine and detergent would clean it off and make 'em smoke. I'm assuming that synthetic oil would be a bad thing in a rebuilt MGA, not the least reason being the leaks would probably be worse. Anyone have experience or thoughts?

The only time I remember hearing this is regarding Ford flathead which allegedly suffered from cracks, I assume in the cylinder bores, and in an attempt to avoid heavily smoking rodders were advised to just run straight 30W non-detergent oil in their motor so as to avoid clearing out the deposits that otherwise help seal up the cylinders. But it's one of those things people just tend to do. I don't know anyone personally who caused their flathead to smoke any worse than it may already have by running modern detergent oil.