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Thread: Wheel failure

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    Great Pumpkin aeronca65t's Avatar
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    Wheel failure

    This link came in through the VRG e-mail list (so I'll guess that Dave and Michael and maybe others have already seen it).

    It's a recent incident with a Turner at Lime Rock that lost a rim through failure of the wheel spider.
    I lost a wheel at BeaveRun two years ago due to stud failure, so I know how this feels.

    This shows an example of using very old parts that may have been fatigued with time and use (and there are many other variables such as rust, improper torques, modern, sticky tires and so forth).

    Always good to inspect our cars, especially since they are often full of parts that are 40+ years old!
    (of course, then again, many of *us* are full of parts that are even older [img]/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif[/img] )

    ~~LINK~~
    https://www.cwnicholls.net/limerock/...target287.html



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    Jedi Knight billspohn's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Quote Originally Posted by aeronca65t
    Always good to inspect our cars, especially since they are often full of parts that are 40+ years old!
    The scary thing is that with steel wheels, unless they already show cracks, you can't tell anything without stripping all the paint off and magnafluxing the rim - ever know anyone that went that far?

    Alloy wheels are so much stronger. MGA steel wheels even brand new are known to collapse under the stresses modern rubber puts on them.

    What a shame - nice Turner!
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    Great Pumpkin tony barnhill's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Do you have photos of the wheel & one that didn't give?
    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"><span style="color: #006600"> Tony &quot;theAutoist&quot; Barnhill</span></span></span></span></span>


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    Great Pumpkin aeronca65t's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Tony:

    The link above will show all of the wheels, damage,etc.

    Meanwhile, here is a picture of the broken wheel with a "good" wheel next to it




    And here is the brake drum post crash with part of the spider still attached


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    Yoda GB1's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Wow:

    And my fear was always the rivets as a stress point.

    Pat
    Have you considered a set of SU's to make it sing!

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    Great Pumpkin tony barnhill's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    DITTO!! WOW! I never would've expected a wheel to separate like that!

    Its as if he locked the brakes at high speed & the momentum twisted the spider apart!
    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"><span style="color: #006600"> Tony &quot;theAutoist&quot; Barnhill</span></span></span></span></span>


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    Freshman Member spridgetpwr84's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Its amazing what can fail.

    Im in the habit of checking the major stress poinits after every event. Over the years I have had cracks show up in wheels(Alloy), A Arms at the swaybar attachment points, Spindles, and other strange places you wouldnt expect.
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    Re: Wheel failure

    There might be more to this that meets the eye.....the pictures show what might be the problem.

    Is that 7/16" studs or the 3/8" wheel studs ?

    And a picture of the profile of the lug nut will tell all.

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    Obi Wan Twosheds's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryB
    There might be more to this that meets the eye.....the pictures show what might be the problem.

    Is that 7/16" studs or the 3/8" wheel studs ?

    And a picture of the profile of the lug nut will tell all.
    I see what you mean.
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Who in the heck would race a nice car like that on 40 year old steel wheels anyway. Why we're talking about this, this is why you would never want to powder coat wheels, as powder coating hides cracks, that why you won't find any wheel companies powder coating wheels.
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Hap.......

    I agree.......but I feel there is another problem of using the wrong hardware with that wheel ....or not torqued before going out. Those wheels are heavy heavy and will support a tank let alone an 1200# Turner. Still they need to be inspected as usual after every race when the car is washed-down. I THINK that they were fine when he went out.....and it all happened in one session. But I dont have all the info....but have seen this before.

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    Re: Wheel failure

    Those nuts look way too small to my eye.
    Roger
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    Great Pumpkin aeronca65t's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Since we are talking about wheels coming off, here is another, recent Turner "wheel off", also at Lime Rock.
    As you can see, this problem is quite different (sorry about the big pictures...not mine).

    ~~Link To Pictures~~
    https://www.dougfraser.com/turner/index.htm#10





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    Re: Wheel failure

    WOW! sheered the drum! never seen that before!
    -Rob

    Dear Carroll, Thank you for the wheels. They lead an exciting life on my 1976 MGB, though brief as it was, that made many a wheel envious.

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    Great Pumpkin tony barnhill's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    I'm nowhere an expert (heck, I'm less than a novice) - however, to me that looks like too much brake at high speed.....Hap?
    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"><span style="color: #006600"> Tony &quot;theAutoist&quot; Barnhill</span></span></span></span></span>


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    Obi Wan WhatsThatNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Wow...
    The first one happened using those puny vintage tires.
    (Dunlap 450L)

    And the second one happened with drum brakes.
    (not disks on the front)

    *thinking*
    cantilevered slicks & calipers would be even harder on the old parts.


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    Re: Wheel failure

    When I was running my Cobra out at Autobahn I had a similar thing happen to my rotor. Luckily the track was already under yellow and I wasn't going that fast as I went straight off the corner.

    Steve
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Stresses and materials failures are part and parcel of racing. Best thing I've seen so-far in this thread is Hap's admonishment against powder-coating wheels.

    Nobody can predict the future, but if you race you MAY want to hedge yer bets and do regular inspections of EVERY piece of the car.

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    Jedi Warrior
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    Re: Wheel failure

    """""against powder-coating wheels. """"""

    or any suspension pieces...or for that matter anything on a race car that holds something.


    """""Nobody can predict the future""""

    and your right Doc....but this car looks like from the pictures that it might not get good car prep and that not very often.

    Picture 1; the wheel has the original rivets only. Frequent checking might show any working of the rim on the spider but best case would be to weld the two with a bead on each foot.

    Picture 2; the upper trunnion bushing looks goofy....whats that all about? From the grease and mung around the spindle nut and cotter key it looks like the drum has not been off in a while. And from the picture it looks like the drum was working the crack for quite a while.

    Unfortunately there is a lot of this in vintage racing...where the car gets put on the trailer after a race and doest come off the trailer till the next race. This stuff should be reported to the VMC for their list for just such incidents by the sanctioning club for that race...but seldom is.

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    Jedi Hopeful
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    Re: Wheel failure

    Sorry, off topic, does anyone know who owns/drives the #24 EP TR3 in the pictures?

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