Pertronix vs Crane Ignition

I Have noticed several discussions on the Pertronix ignition. Has anyone tried the Crane. Any discussions or ideas which is better, magnetic pickup or infra-red.

I have been running the Crane XR700 for years into the standard coil with excellent results. My tune-up frequency has gone to nothing and always get instant starts and very smooth running. The only problem I had at first was the slotted wheel was for a different distributor. A call to Crane cleared that up with a new wheel.

Mr. Bassman

I am currently running the Ignitor in my 78B and am very happy with it.

Grassroots Motorsports did a great article in their February 2003 issue.

In this they used a Rubber Bumper B to pull Dyno runs testing various common bolt on upgrades. Some of the parts tested used the Crane Fireball XR700 as well as the Ignitor. The results were nearly identical to one another.

If this is a true gauge of the two then the only difference would seem to be the price tag.

To upgrade a B to either Moss Motors quotes the following prices:
Crane XR700
4/6 cyl. Point-type distributor @ $126.30
4/6/8/12 Lucas Elect dizzy @ $129.95
Pertronix
Ignitor @ $107.60


[ 06-14-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>

i have also purchased the craane xr700... havent installed it yet...seems to be the kit i bought is for an opus type distrubitor. i have an electronic distrubtor. Cant seem to find a breakdown of it in any of my manuals ( i dont have a bently yet) looks like it might bolt up except for the large star shaped reluctor? which i may be able to remove and replace with some sort of spacer. saving this little project for the winter

but i still wonder if optical is better than magnetic?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SilentUnicorn:
<<SNIP>>

but i still wonder if optical is better than magnetic?<hr></blockquote>

My money is on the Magnetic. Optics can always be blocked by dirt & grime build-up. Also the magnet will always stay a magnet, long after your B or Midget is dead & gone.



[ 06-14-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>

Actually, I had not heard of the pertronix when I bought the Crane and that was by accident. JC Whitney had an infra red ignition on sale called the Allison and I ordered it. When it came, it was the Crane. I think Crane bought out the Allison.
My '72 B has a 75 distributor and that may have been the problem I had although I believe I stated that in the order. But anyway the engineer at Crane sent me the correct part.
I also haven't had any problems with the pickup clogging with dirt or oil. I did have a problem when the heater valve started leaking on the distributor and it quit and wouldn't start until I got it dried out. The magnetic ignition would have had a problem in that case also.
Anyway I think both are just as good like Bret said, the only difference is cost.

True – but the thing to remember is that the coolant would have affected the distributor regardless what type it was.

My comment on the “natural” advantage of the Magnetic over the Optical circuit was said in generic terms and would depend on the application.

Example: In my job we use the magnetic position sensors throughout our hugh robotic hydrauliclly driven systems, as part of our safety circuits. This choice was made because of their robustness & reliability under some of the most “adverse” conditions.

While both magnetic & optical ignition triggering systems are immune to were & tear that one would expect with a point-type system (Burnt points). In this application the optical circuit's performance “could” also be compromised by some of the same things (oil, dirt & grime) that would diminish a regular points-type system. But while this can affect both the points & the optical systems – the magnetic system is immune. At least as far as the magnitic circuit is concerned. That said we all need to remember that the dizzies mechanics could still be damaged if build-up is left un-checked over time.

But as we all are conscientious owners we all know that we should (out of habit) pop the rotor cap once in a while and clean the thing out. Do this & we’ll all avoid any problems, regardless of what type of system you own.

Hello Bret,

What sort of figures did this magazine get for the ignition systems that they tested, was there any significant gain?

Alec

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by piman:
Hello Bret,

What sort of figures did this magazine get for the ignition systems that they tested, was there any significant gain?

Alec

<hr></blockquote>

Hi Alec,

I have the Grassroots article in front of me and both the Ignitor and the Crane saw what I would call significant gains over the stock Electronic Ignition as well as the Points Type ignition.

The points type saw about +2hp over the stock elect type @ 2000RPMs. A loss of –1hp @ 3000RPMs and another loss of –3hp @ peak using stock timing settings. I’ll have to assume that these where new points so you can only expect these values to degrade with time.

Both the Ignitor and the Crane saw still more. +4hp @ 2000RPMs. +1 @ 3000RPMs and still another +1HP at Peak. Again using stock timing settings.

The really neat HP numbers came as they played with the “total” degrees of advance using the Ignitor. With best being +4 @ 2000, +2 @ 3000 and +5 at peak using 35 degrees of total advance.

But the real thing to keep in mind is the over all improvement in performance. The torque was improved across the entire power band.




[ 06-15-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>

Well, Bret, I agree with everything you have said. But the only reason I said they were similar was in this aplication I have had no problems with the Crane in the 8 years I have had it installed,
Yes, the infra red can be affected by more external influences with other aplications. Ambient light can affect it as well as dirt or foriegn matter.
I used to work on VCR's and the end of tape sensors were infra red The emitter was in the center of the tape when the tape was put in it went in a hole in the middle of the tape and the receivers were on either side. Late model VCR's didn't have these shielded with hoods and you couldn't work on them in any kind of light with the top off without putting something over it to shield the light.
However on the other side, if you put a magnetic pickup near a noise pluse of sufficient magnetude, it would tare up the Pertronix.
Given the choice between the two now I am sure it would be a decision that would be whichever was more ecconomical.
On that article you were talking about, did they experiment with the dist, curve in addition to the total advance? Like installing weaker springs to let the total advance come in at a lower RPM. There is significant power gain to be had if the total advance is allowed to come in at between 2000 and 2500 RPM rather than most stock curves of over 4000 RPM. My '75 dist came with weaker springs that let it happen at under 2500 RPM.
I just wondered if they had done this maybe even greater differences could have shown up between the two electronic ignitions and the stock points.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mrbassman:
<<SNIP>>
On that article you were talking about, did they experiment with the dist, curve in addition to the total advance? Like installing weaker springs to let the total advance come in at a lower RPM. There is significant power gain to be had if the total advance is allowed to come in at between 2000 and 2500 RPM rather than most stock curves of over 4000 RPM. My '75 dist came with weaker springs that let it happen at under 2500 RPM.
I just wondered if they had done this maybe even greater differences could have shown up between the two electronic ignitions and the stock points.<hr></blockquote>

The GM article didn’t mention anything about playing around with the Distributor curves. I just assumed that they used the TDC timing setting to achieve the maximum degrees at peak RPMs. But it is reasonable to assume that in the interest of eliminating as many variables as possible, that they didn’t play with the curves.

As for the distributor type used for the majority of the tests, it was the 45D. The only exception was with the Crane ignition system, when they used the older 25D. I don’t know what the basic curve setting of the two distributors. The only thing for sure is that the results using stock timing settings was HP numbers where basically identical to one another.

Also from what I can tell - after re-reading the article again they didn’t play with the only pulled one Dyno run with the Crane setup. All of the remaining tests used the Ignitor and various degrees of timing.


[ 06-15-2003: Message edited by: Bret ]</p>

Bret, I looked for the Grass Roots article but I let my subscription lapse and the last mag I had was Nov 2002-- bummer, anyway, I found an interesting web site on tuning the timing curves on Lucas distributors. Thought you might be interested.
https://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0015.html

Simply put, the electronic ignition may be the single best mod you can do on one of these old crates. More power, better reliability AND better gas mileage. Can't beat it with a stick.

Both of them have proven to be absolutely trouble free for years, but if I had to pick one, I'd go with the pertronix because it mounts entirely under the cap (no box) and it's mounting system is a bit more robust. That said, I've had two Cranes (including one on my current B) and have no complaints whatsoever.

Depending on how it's setup, the EI can be good for up to 5 horsepower. On a 95-horse motor, that's significant. It also allows you to open your plug gap, which can yield further gains, and you're pushing a better spark if you've done any tuning work.

Of course, there's always the Electramotive DIS, as well. Trouble free, at least in my experience, timing and rev limits set with the turn of a knob, and spark up the wazoo.
Biggest drawback is the cost.
I put a Crane system on a '65 Sprite, and had nothing but trouble. Haven't gotten around to trying the Pertronix yet, but plan on it, after reading several positive comments. Do they make a system that is compatible with positive ground? The Crane that I tried was meant for positive ground, but I could never get the tach to work right, for one thing. I know, I know, but I'm a purist.
Jeff

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Bugeye58:
<<SNIP>>
Do they make a system that is compatible with positive ground?
<<SNIP>>
Jeff<hr></blockquote>

Hey Jeff,

Yes, Pertronix makes these for Positive ground systems too. I couldn't find a listing for a 65 Sprite. However the Moss Catalog has many of them listed by the type of Distributor used.

Take a look and see if any of these might work for yours. If you still ain't sure give Moss or Pertronix a call.

Good luck,

I've used Cranes for years without problems...switched after I had problems with Pertronex

https://www.classicgarage.com/classicgarage/parts-pertronix-ignitors-mg.html

try here


Mark

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tony barnhill:
I've used Cranes for years without problems...switched after I had problems with Pertronex<hr></blockquote>

Hey Tony,

I can't bad mouth the Cranes but I'd like to know what kind of problems you had with the Pertronex?

Been a while, Bret....but as I recall, it only ran on 3 clinders & I couldn't for the life of me get #3 to work...switched to a Crane & never missed a beat...."once burned - yadda-yadda-yadda & it might've been something else of the Pertronix just went 'tits up', however.........