Wire Wheel Conversion

[MadRiver]

Has anyone converted their Triumph from steel/disc wheels to wire wheels? I'm thinking about it, and I understand that you have to shorten the wheel studs so they don't foul the wire wheels. How much of a hassle is it to cut down sixteen wheel studs (four per wheel)? I've heard you can replace the studs, but how are they attached to the backing plate?

Thanks so much!

 

[michalotti_tr]

You can tap them out like most studs, or you can use a spacer between the hub and the wire wheel adapter and not have to cut or replace the studs - also allows you to switch back and forth if you wanted to.

 

[MadRiver]

Thanks, Raymond. How hard is it to tap them out? Sounds like a lot of work. Spacers sound great, but does that create any problems with wheel arches, etc.?

 

[Andrew Mace]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone converted their Triumph from steel/disc wheels to wire wheels? I'm thinking about it, and I understand that you have to shorten the wheel studs so they don't foul the wire wheels. How much of a hassle is it to cut down sixteen wheel studs (four per wheel)?

[/ QUOTE ]I suspect that something like a Dremel tool with a cut-off wheel would do the trick fairly easily. The official factory recommendation is to shorten the studs by approximately 5/16".

 

[Alan_Myers]

Hi Bill,

If you choose to replace the studs, I believe they are threaded into the hub, and they are often peened a little on the inside to prevent loosening. It's a matter of grinding off the peened area slightly, so the threads in the hub aren't damaged when the the stud is backed out. (Note: if the thread gets damaged, there are repair kits sold by one or two of the Triumph vendors that use an oversize thread in a freshly tapped hole in the hub. The end that mounts the wheel or wire adapter stays the same size & thread.)

The spacer isn't very thick, only about 6mm or 1/4" approx. (www.revingtontr.com has the best).

Or, just use a Dremel tool to cut off the existing studs. Dremel *reinforced* cutoff disks will make pretty quick work of cutting them.

Best way to do this is to install the adapter to the hub, being sure it is very clean metal-to-metal contact, or it might work loose. Use only the special lug nuts, not the regular ones. Tighten them up and then cut off the studs leaving about 1 thread protruding from the lug nut.

The adapters are left and right, used incorrectly the spinners will come loose.

One thing that you might want to consider, wire wheels are pretty heavy, and the adapters add even more weight. This does effect handling, since it's unsprung weight.

Wires are also a pain in the rear to clean.

On the other hand they sure look great!

Also, I recommend not buying used wire wheels or hubs, only new. An unknown set of wires or hubs might be getting replaced and sold off because of problems. The primary reasons are that the wheels sometimes need truing and the splines on both the wheel and the adapter do wear over time. It's hard to spot either of these problems by eye, no matter how carefully a used set is inspected.

Have fun shopping!

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[MadRiver]

Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it. We'll be deciding over the next couple of weeks. Of course, I have amassed a huge collection of Rostyle hubcaps -- three complete sets (two of which are pretty nice), and a couple of good spares as well. If I sold them, I'd probably pay for the conversion kit!

But then again, this is a scary tale: https://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/hard_lesson.shtml

 

[Geo Hahn]

Bill --

I use the 1/4" spacers that allow me to switch between disc and wires on the TRs. They are actually 6mm -- I got them at a local Hot Rod wheel shop.

I have had no problems in 5 years of use but use your own judgement as to whether these are an okay idea. They do widen the track by a half inch, hardly noticable to the eye.

When I was a youngster I had one of those Schuco toy race cars you could take the wheels off and switch from red to blue wires -- now I guess I have the grown-up version.

 

[Alan_Myers]

[ QUOTE ]
But then again, this is a scary tale: https://www.totallytriumph.net/spitfire/hard_lesson.shtml

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is a scary tale!

However, just to clarify, it doesn't exactly apply if you are installing wire wheels on your TR250.

Spitfire are different in two respects: their lug studs are not threaded into the hub (they are pressed in) and their wire wheel lug nuts appear to not be the same design as those used on TRs.

TR2-6 use special, lower profile, double-beveled lug nuts for the wire wheel conversion. The standard TR lug nuts are too tall and will rub against the inside of the wheel. I don't know if w/w lug nuts are any different alloy than standard. I suspect not.

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[RomanH]

[ QUOTE ]

However, just to clarify, it doesn't exactly apply if you are installing wire wheels on your TR250.



[/ QUOTE ]
Alan,
Are the 250 and the 6 hubs the same? I was just looking in my Bentley book and in there it shows that the studs are pressed in to the hub, it also shows a very short nut for the wire wheel adaptor application.
Just wondering.
Roman

 

[michalotti_tr]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Raymond. How hard is it to tap them out? Sounds like a lot of work. Spacers sound great, but does that create any problems with wheel arches, etc.?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't hard - a couple of wacks with a 5 lb hand sledge and they popped right out. I'm working in the opposite direction - replacing my wire wheel lugs for regular length ones.

I haven't used the spacers with the wire wheels personally, but I've not heard anyone report any problems with them.

 

[bobh]

They are pretty easy to tap out. Most studs havs a spline at the base. When they are pressed into the hub the spline deforms the inside of the hole enough to form a mating spline. Tap out the old ones and align the new ones with the spline on the hole and either tap them in or press them.
The spline helps to keep the stud from spining when you tighter or loosen a nut.

 

[Alan_Myers]

Re: WHOOPS! Wire Wheel Conversion

Hi again,

Whoops! I was wrong, they appear to use pressed in lug studs! Please ignore my earlier statement!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

However, just to clarify, it doesn't exactly apply if you are installing wire wheels on your TR250.

[/ QUOTE ]
Alan,
Are the 250 and the 6 hubs the same? I was just looking in my Bentley book and in there it shows that the studs are pressed in to the hub, it also shows a very short nut for the wire wheel adaptor application.
Just wondering.
Roman

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it appears TR250/5/6 hubs are all the same.

And, the special wire wheel nuts are the same on all TR models, Triumph part 110366. It is shorter and bevelled on both sides. (I think 109586 is the standard full height nut that cannot be used with wire wheel adapters.)

The special, shorter wire wheel stud is 110365. However, replacing it means disassembling the front hubs, at least. The rear are more accessible. So, cutting the studs down to size with a Dremel is probably the easiest and fastest way to convert the existing studs, if you don't want to use a spacer.

Because TR wheels & wire wheel adapters are helped to center on the hub by the lug studs, the typical locally-available "uyniversal" wheel spacers with oblong holes (to allow use with different lug patterns) aren't highly recommended. Revington TR sells more carefully machined spacers 217602S individually, which are 6.35mmm thick. Both Moss USA and Moss Europe sell 6mm spacers in pairs, but these are a universal type: Part numbers are 674-685 and TT6902, respectively.

Sorry for the earlier mis-information. Still, Spitfire do use different parts here and might not be a good comparison.

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[Geo Hahn]

Re: WHOOPS! Wire Wheel Conversion

[ QUOTE ]
...they appear to use pressed in lug studs! Please ignore my earlier statement!...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just so I'm not too confused -- am I correct in understanding that the TR3 & 4 rear studs are threaded in (and swaged on the backside to secure them) and are removed by grinding down the back side, screwing them out a bit, grinding some more on what flares out, etc?

 

[TR4]

Re: WHOOPS! Wire Wheel Conversion

On my 64 TR4, the front wire wheel studs simply popped out with the 5 lb.er but the rear studs were threaded and peened on the back side. I had to grind off the back side to get them out. Since I don't have any way to peen the new ones, I used Locktite when I threaded the new ones in.

 

[Andy Blackley]

I converted to wire wheels on my TR250 last spring. As suggested above I used my handy Dremel tool to cut the old studs (which are pressed in) to the correct length, ie. just a thread showing with the adaptor on the hub and the nuts torqued down. Be sure to wear eye protection and do your cutting so that the sparks fly downward. I had a shallow pan of water under the hub to catch them. Better safe than sorry.
Mounting the new adaptors, using the correct new nuts was super easy after that. I cleaned and painted the hub and also the inside of the adaptor to prevent rust.
I installed new 6", 72 spoke painted Daytons with 195-65R15 Bridgestone Potenzas and eared knock-offs. Not "stock" but I love these wheels. They clean very easily because they have a nice smooth, hard finish. The local tire store where I bought my tires and tubes was able to balance them quite well too.
I may offend some TR250 purists but the silly muscle car hubcaps (with five ersatz lug nuts fercrisakes) had to go, and the stock TR250 wheels were too narrow for most available modern rubber. I saved the rims and hubcaps for the next owner.
PS I have since removed the adaptors in the course of other work and had no problems reinstalling the nuts on the cut-down studs. Later on I found that my rear hubs were trashed and the rebuilts arrived sans any studs, so I did in fact use new correct stock "shorties" at that point.
PPS. Following something on the tyre maths thread, I bought a nice used, narrow wire wheel from my pals at Team Triumph and used a 165SR15 tire for the spare so it would fit under the stock boot floor.

 

[Adrio]

I converted my TR4 to wire wheels. I just put the plined hub on with the correct (smaller wheel nuts) then used a hack saw to cut the studs to the correct lenth. Filed the cut edge a bit to make a slight bevel. When I removed the nut any burrs were removed. The entire process took a few minutes (maybe 20). It was not hard at all and I would do it again any day.