TR2/3/3A Wire wheel balancing

[sp53]

Wire wheel balancing, well I put those used wire wheels on my car with new tires. I went to a nice used tire shop for the installation, and when I asked the guy how come there are no balancing weights,” he comments that those wheels are not done that way.” Well, I get a shimmy at about 50 and was wondering if anyone has any ideas. I know I can always sell the wheels to Randall, so I should be fine there, but I am just wondering if there is something like a spin balance or something.

 

[Marvin Gruber]

I just had the set for the 250 balanced. I am lucky I have small gas station that the owner is old school and can still spin balance. Was very lucky the wheels were good and required only small weights.

Marv

 

[Geo Hahn]

Of course they 'are done that way'. Some use the clip on weights but the ones that stick on the back side of the rim are more discreet (even Harbor Freight has them). If you want something more vintage you could do it like this:

I have thought about trying that with some lead solder.

I have always balanced my own using a simple bubble balancer and seem to get good results (repeatable and smooth driving).

 

[TR3TR6]

You need to make sure the wheels are true before you have them balanced; just like on a bicycle. Once they are true, spin balancing is your best bet.

 

[martx-5]

There's a right and a wrong way to set up the adapter cones used to mount the wheel on the balancing machine. Here's a short article from Moss that explains the correct way to balance wire wheels.

https://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/balance_wire_wheels.html

 

[Lukens]

I've fought with tire guys too. Unless the balancer is locating on the inside taper of the inboard side of the hub and the outside taper of on the outboard side of the hub, your wasting your time and money.

All the shops I went to slapped the wheel on there machine, stuck a cone on the balancer shaft, and clamped it tight. This method will be locating your wheel on front and rear surfaces that are not machined and true. See the points 2E and 2F on the image above.
One correct way would be to use a stock tapered adapter on the inboard side at point 1F. For the outboard locator, I machined an adapter that located on the outboard taper of the wheel.

This worked for me. A better way is to actually bore the inside of a spare hub out to the diameter of the balancer spindle, and do likewise to a spare knock-off nut. I later did just that.
I might add that I even went so far as to have my tires shaved while on the wheel. Anal maybe, but I'm smooth as silk at all speeds.

 

[Rut]

I went to a tire shop that's been around for a long time and discussed the above diagram with the owner. He sent his tire balance guy to the warehouse where he found the correct cones to fit a wire wheel and they also turned the tires on the wheel to get the best balance. Very pleased with the result and the worst of the lot required less than 1/2 oz on the inside rim. Old guys rule!
Rut

 

[sp53]

Thanks you guys, and so if I am reading the comments correctly, they are done with weights just like most wheels? But it would be best to have them spun balanced on the car if the wheels are not bent with the run out is ok?

 

[Lukens]

Thanks you guys, and so if I am reading the comments correctly, they are done with weights just like most wheels? But it would be best to have them spun balanced on the car if the wheels are not bent with the run out is ok?

If you can find a shop that still spin balances on the car, you can forget about adapters etc. There are none in this area.

 

[sp53]

Well I did find a shop for a spin balance on the car, but they want 25.00 per tire. I also found a tire balancer at Harbor Fright for 80.00 that actually looked of higher quality than most there stuff. Decisions.

 

[Geo Hahn]

That is the balancer I use. Not dynamic and relies on the accuracy of the inner face of the hub but seems to deliver very good results for me.

One test I do is (after balancing) try the wheel on the gadget in several different positions. If it stays in balance irrespective of orientation then I conclude I got it as right as a bubble balancer can make it.

 

[RJS]

This is interesting to me. So exactly one year ago I had new tires mounted. The originals had aged out but, I was still reluctant to put new ones on since the existing balance job was perfect.

So, I found an old-time family owned tire shop that had the adapters to mount wire wheels on a spin balance machine. New tire/tubes mounted and spin balanced. They used the weights that clip on the rim. BTW, I was very surprised at the amount of weights they had to add. Anyway, very happy with new tires but, getting a bad vibration above 50mph - which I never had before. I plan on going back in the next few weeks for a rebalance. But, I was wondering - is it possible that with newly mounted tubes, could the tubes have shifted/settled on my first long drive at speed - thus throwing off the balance? I'm kinda hoping that's the case and that all will be well after a rebalance.

If that doesn't work then I'll pick up the HF bubble balancer and tinker myself until I get it right.

Bob

 

[Geo Hahn]

I don't see how the tubes could shift.

When I would have to go back I would make a note (or photo) of the weights as they were first done and compare them to the re-do. It seemed to me that those machines (or operators) had trouble getting the same results twice (which, as I recall, is an essential part of the scientific method).

 

[TomMull]

Well I did find a shop for a spin balance on the car, but they want 25.00 per tire. I also found a tire balancer at Harbor Fright for 80.00 that actually looked of higher quality than most there stuff. Decisions.

Spin balancing on the car (old school type) requires a bit of skill and experience on the part of the operator. The ones I've used required trial and error and that was time consuming making the $25 reasonable at today's rates. The thing consisted a sensor that went under the lower ball joint that was attached to a strobe. The strobe acted like a timing light when the heavy side of the tire went past. It stayed off when you were done (never happened with me). The same shop also had a bubble balancer which was almost always used for wire wheels. Tom

 

[sp53]

Another vote for the bubble balancer and saving 20.00 plus having a new toy, so where do I get the weights and are they price?

 

[Geo Hahn]

...where do I get the weights...?

Same place you get the balancer...

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-oz-wheel-weights-67226.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/1-4-quarter-oz-wheel-weights-67225.html

 

[RJS]

Hi

So, finally coming back to my post of 4-30-2015 above (I like to close the loop on open questions). If you recall, I had new tires installed last year and balanced by an old-time shop which had the proper adapters to perform a computer-spin balance. Low and behold, I got a very bad front end shake above 50 mph with the new tires. So, I went ahead and purchased the HF bubble balance a few weeks ago - rather than paying the shop to re-balance them. Guess what? All four wheels check out as perfectly balanced. So, before I go yanking off the weights on there now, it got me thinking "what else could have changed". Ah ha, I had rotated the wheels front <--> back last year after the new tires were installed.

So, I rotated the wheels back again and guess what? Front end runs smooth as silk again with no vibration in the steering wheel. Now my thought is it is a run out problem on one or both of the rear wheels. I'm not too worried about it (it's been this way for the last 15 years). But, is there a way to fix this? If so, is it worth it? The wheels are 15"x4.5" wires (60 spoke). Quite old but, very clean and in good shape. Tires are 165/80-15.

Bob