TR2/3/3A TR3 Front Fender Washers?

[luke44]

Question for the group. I'm putting on my front fenders, and I looked at a bunch of photos I took at TRA 2010. Pretty obvious the rear most 2 flat washers are bigger than the rest (a lot of cars had this) but I can't determine is there should be a lock washer or not. Common sense tells me yes, but I don't seem to see any. So, what say ye? Lockwashers or Loctite?? Thanks in advance, Bruce

 

[luke44]

One more - the white cars aren't all the same car btw....

 

[M_Pied_Lourd]

Hi Bruce, Thanks for posting this. I was not aware that the washers were bigger at the first two locations. I bought my fender kits from Macy's and I don't believe they have larger washers in them. Cheers David

 

[CJD]

No lockwashers, and after the struggle I had removing mine, I wouldn't personally use any locktite. Those caged nuts spin pretty easily...

 

[mallard]

Again no lock washers, or threadlocker. On my TR6 I found some mylar washers that I put under the heads of the bolts so they would not grab the paint. 8 years later no loose bolts. Instead of mylar washers I now make my own out of some old clear blister pack, and punch them out with hole punches I got from HF. The washers also work great under the Lift a Dot studs on the paint and capping. One thing I did notice from all the pictures is that no one is putting the packing back into the corners next to the wiper motor. My TR6 and TR3 had what looked like a glob of bondo pushed into the opening to prevent water from running in.

 

[martx-5]

I agree with NO LOCTITE... as a matter of fact, when i did my resto, every bolt and screw that went into a caged nut got anti-seize smeared on them. I've had the apron off once since, and was glad I used the anti-seize.

 

[MDCanaday]

The rear most hole is often found to be reamed or slotted out from the factory(or some latter effort?)
in any case the quick fix is the larger washer.Anti seize is a hot lick unless you want to do as original and let it rust solid
as it comes over on the boat!!
MD(mad dog)

 

[luke44]

The rear most hole is often found to be reamed or slotted out from the factory(or some latter effort?)
in any case the quick fix is the larger washer....MD(mad dog)

Can't say for sure. Mine are not reamed. Some of the photos I took above were previous TRA winners and my guess is they had a choice and went this route but not as a quick fix. When you are that far into a resto it isn't that much extra work to fix an elongated hole. As well, I have noted the larger washers on the back 2 positions in other TR3 books. So maybe that was why they did it, but I'm fairly confident they did do it.

 

[HerronScott]

Does the SPC help at all? They show the following attaching the front fender?

FRONT WING ASSEMBLY, L.H.	1		900461
Screw, front apron to front wing	12		HU0706/P
Washer, plain, on screw	12		WM.0057
Screw, front wing to "A" post	12		HU0705/P
Washer, plain, on screw	12		WM.0057
Screw, front wing to sill	6		HU0705/P
Washer, plain, on screw	6		WP.0023
Screw, front wing to scuttle panel	2		HU0706/P
Washer, plain, on screw	2		WM.0057

WM.0057 are washer, plain, medium with ID 1/4" and OD .75" x .065".

WP.0023 are washer, plain, light with ID 1/4" and OD 1/2".

Scott

 

[charleyf]

Here is what I found regarding the rear washer of the front fender. The Triumph Factory realized that the last hole did not get covered up by the normal sized washer, so they put a larger washer in that spot. However, I happen to have TR3B and it did not have the larger washer in that spot. This happened to be mentioned by a know-it-all at a concours during judging of MY car. So I undertook an explanation and what I found was the above story but with this twist. Because the TR3B's were not assembled by the Triumph Factory ( they were building TR4's by that time) but rather by the Forward Radiator Company who did not know about the larger last washer. The result was that TR3B's did not get the larger washer treatment.
Intead of any locktite I would recommend that you use anti-sieze on each of these fender bolts. That is what I now use after disassebling a few cars.
Charley

 

[Geo Hahn]

...TR3B and it did not have the larger washer in that spot. This happened to be mentioned by a know-it-all at a concours during judging of MY car...

Interesting detail. I try to be no more than a 'know-it-some' as I have not seen every TR built.

Bruce -- another for you collection. Probably original insofar as those bolts have not moved since Coventry.

 

[Bruce100]

If I can ask you all, what do you do as far as painting the bolts and Fender Washers? Before, after? How do you prevent damage if before when installing?

 

[luke44]

Interesting. Based on George's photo which matches my research it is the last 2. This of course does not match up with Charlies comments where he indicates it was only the back one, or the one white car I posted earlier that had 3. One thing that does seem consistent is no lockwashers.

Bruce 100 - good question - a tough detail. Being as we are not an assembly line, we all do not have the luxury of doing it in the order the factory did. While there is always more than one way to skin this cat, what I did was I painted my bolts and washers off the car - set them up by poking small holes in a piece of semi rigid cardboard for the bolts to pass through to head height, and using old nuts as pedestals for the washers to sit on. I got a pro spray can from the body shop that was a perfect color match for the car. Then I did my first batch - with primer, base, and clear coats as per how the shop painted the car (yeah yeah, I know - it's not single stage paint like the original). Anyway, I was not happy with the result as the definition and markings of the original bolt heads got lost. So I stripped them and did them over this time with real light dusting of primer and then the lighter base/clear which I was happy with. I've since ended up using the spray bomb for all sorts of little pieces that have come up.

To instal, the first step is be sure they are well cured - I left mine several weeks so the paint got hard. Then I used plastic wrenches and a socket inserts that I sourced from Bojo. This eliminates all but the very smallest paint chips which I touched up with a really fine brush.
https://www.bojodownloads.com/downloads/BrochureSocketInsertsandWrenches.pdf

And of course, in the end we have to also remember it's all personal taste. I've also seen lots of cars with unpainted new hardware/bolts. I personally like the look of that approach too.

 

[mallard]

When I put mine together I used an extra set of hardware to install all the body panels. You can get them cheap from McMasters Carr, I order 100 count boxes of bolts and washers, under $20.00. That way you can make all the needed adjustments to the panels without damaging any of the paint on the bolts. I put some masking tape under the washers so I would not mare the paint making all the adjustments. I did like Bruce did to paint the bolts but I used some old window screen instead. For the washers I wired each one with a very thin solid wire in sequence so I could get both sides. My paint cured for at least 4 months before they were used, and some still have not been used. To screw all the bolts down I used a good quality 6 point nut driver with great success. Yes this can be very time consuming but in the end you'll like the results.

 

[martx-5]

...

And of course, in the end we have to also remember it's all personal taste. I've also seen lots of cars with unpainted new hardware/bolts. I personally like the look of that approach too.

So true. I opted for the unpainted look. I have so many other modifications, that any concours judging would have my car owing points.

 

[HerronScott]

Bruce,

I'm pretty sure that these fenders have not been off the car so this should be original with the back 2 washers being larger and no lock washers. You can see the original Silverstone Grey trying to escape. Car has not been on the road since 1975 so that's antique rust!

Scott

 

[charleyf]

I surely will not defend the story that I was told about the one last washer being larger. It seems that some of you have shown proof that there might have been two at times . I do know that when working on TR3's I have noticed that the last hole seems to have a bad fit where a larger washer is needed to cover up the hole. The other part of my story was that the TR3B's apparently did not have any larger washers.
As to how to treat the paint on the bolts and washers, I have used a piece of cardboard and stuck the bolts on it and also painted the washers separately before assembly.
I understand that originally the cars were assembled and then painted. Which is why you see the paint running over the edge of the bolts and washers.
Charley

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

I understand that originally the cars were assembled and then painted. Which is why you see the paint running over the edge of the bolts and washers.

But that makes me wonder how they got the beading in place, without damaging the paint on the bolts or screws in the trunk.

 

[luke44]

But that makes me wonder how they got the beading in place, without damaging the paint on the bolts or screws in the trunk.

Good question. I guess you could install the beading after the fender is loosely bolted in place, but it's a lot easier to install at the same time as the fender is bolted up.

 

[charleyf]

The front fender washers that we are discussing would not affect the fender bead installation. The bolts that need to be tightened would be those underneath the front fender. So it is very likely that they did pull those bolts down tight and then leave the underside /apron bolts loose. This would also allow for separation of the two body pieces to make sure that paint did not bridge the two pieces. In the trunk they would have had to leave the screws loose for the beading installation.

We do a lot of guessing on these cars.
Charley