TR2/3/3A TR3 front end shake

[BillyB62]

I just got my TR3 back from the mechanic (brought to him due to lack of time during the summer and it ended up taking most of the summer to return it). I brought in in July when my front end started to shake above 53 miles per hour (to the point that I thought the front wheels were falling off).

So, after much anticipation, I got it back yesterday and the shake is still there. I couldn't bring it back to him because I picked it up right at closing time (nor do I want to). Here's what I had done to it: replaced inner & outer tie rods, ball joints (even though Randall told me the typically don't go bad), all bushings, wheel bearings, silent bloc pins, front shocks, had a front end alignment and front wheels balanced. I also checked that the lugs were tight on all 4 wheels.

I'm at a loss on what to do next (I typically go faster than 53 miles per hour on most trips :rapture. I feel like I'd just be throwing money at it now without a plan.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks,

 

[Jerry]

check to see if you lost a wheel weight that would make the wheel be out of balance. You usually can see where one fell off.

 

[CJD]

I have had tires delaminates internally, so they look good at rest, but balloon out and shake like crazy at speed. Try swapping the fronts for the rears to see if the shake moves. Aside from that, it sounds like the trunnions are the only part left to check...

 

[BillyB62]

I moved the front tires to the rear (and vice versa ) and the shake is reduced dramatically....but is still there. I'm going to take the "new" front tires and have them balanced too....should've done that in the first place!

What are symptoms of worn trunnions? I asked my mechanic if, since I was replacing everything else, if I should just do them too and he told me it wasn't needed.....I know better!

How can I tell if I have a slipped radial or which tire is bad?

P.S. - Thanks John!

 

[TomMull]

I have had tires delaminates internally, so they look good at rest, but balloon out and shake like crazy at speed. Try swapping the fronts for the rears to see if the shake moves. Aside from that, it sounds like the trunnions are the only part left to check...

Good advice. I can't think of anything but a tire if everything is tight. You should also be able to feel or see cupping on the edge of the bad tire. I also assume the mechanic aligned the front after the work, although alignment by itself shouldn't cause the shake.
Tom

 

[TR3driver]

I agree, I'd suspect the tires. I had a failure once that was so bad, I literally thought the tire was flat, but it looked fine. I've also seen new tires that had a stiff spot and would vibrate at speed no matter how often they were balanced.

The balancing process is also suspect. Most shops locate the wheel by the center hole during balancing, but the hole is not necessarily centered in the wheel the same way that the lug holes are. Ideally, you want the wheels balanced on the car, but I don't know of a single shop that can still do that. Next best thing would be a balancer that holds the wheel by the lug holes, but those are pretty scarce too.

 

[BillyB62]

Tom,

Yes, the alignment was done after the work was complete.

 

[titanic]

I can remember fighting the "50 mph shaky front end battle" many years ago. For me, the solution was to first replace the potato chip shaped wire wheels with disc wheels that were checked for run out. Then the tire-wheel assembly was trued and dynamically balanced. The shake was gone for the most part, but it seems that minor ripples in the road surface are felt in a TR3 that aren't detectable in a modern car, like the TR6. Berry

 

[BillyB62]

Well, I took the other tires to be balanced and told the guy of the troubles I was having. I told him I was planning on replacing them if they wouldn't balance and after he was done, although he said they did balance showed me where one of the tires had an odd shape to it.....I'm therefore going to replace all four because I don't know how long the car sat before I bought the it from the PO. I'll search the forum for tire recommendations.

Thanks to all who pointed me in the right direction. To look at the tires I would never have suspected there was anything wrong with them and probably would've kept throwing more and more money at stuff that didn't need replacing.

 

[CJD]

Bad tires are the toughest to diagnose. They can look...and even seem to balance...fine. After many miles, the bad tire will develop an odd wear pattern. Aside from that, all you can do is swap tires till you find the one (or more) that are at fault. Look at the bright side...your suspension is ready to go a long time now!

 

[TR3driver]

I'm therefore going to replace all four because I don't know how long the car sat before I bought the it from the PO.

There is a date code on the sidewall for any tire made (and legally sold in the US) for the past 30 years or so. See
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11
for more information on how to decode it.

Opinions vary on maximum tire age; but pretty much everyone agrees that you shouldn't even try to drive on tires that are over 10 years old, no matter how good they look. Even if the rubber is fine, the cords inside degrade with time, loose their connection with the rubber, and can fail suddenly. I'm sorry I didn't get a photo, but I got a dramatic demonstration when I tried to drive one of the Stags home on old tires. The left rear shucked all it's tread, and the steel belts turned into a gigantic flap wheel that took off all the paint and a fair amount of metal from the fender; all in the length of time it took me to pull over and stop.

 

[NutmegCT]

Bent wheel(s).

I had a very similar problem on my TR when I used the original wheels. Checked all the usual suspects (tie rods, suspension, tire balance. All ok.

But another BCF member suggested testing the wheels themselves for being true. Lift wheel. Hold your finger pointing toward the side of the tire, and see if the tire moves "back and forth" from your finger as you spin the wheel.

Wheels can get bent by shops, by curbs, and by chuck holes. If a wheel is bent at the hub, you usually can't straighten it.

When I replaced my wheels with new Minilites - and the same tires - the shaking completely went away.

Tom

 

[TimK1955tr2]

Well here is my recent experience, I just bought brand new Dunlop wire wheels and brand new Firestone 560 (made in Ukraine) tires a few months ago. They ran with more of a shimmy than the 15yo 560s (Made in USA) and original wire wheels with loose spokes!! I did have both the old wheel set and new set mounted and balanced by the same tire shop that services the local Brit car restoration shop.

The new wire wheels without tires were MUCH straighter than the old ones, I don't think that was the problem. I did notice when I jacked the car up just enough to clear the tires off the ground and spin, the new tires were significantly out of round. They scuffed against the floor very noticeably at certain points of the revolution.

I am lucky to have another local shop that does the tire truing, it really does work wonders.

https://www.ktvintagecars.com/tiretruing.html

When I complained to the shop guy, he mentioned that he has had issues with all the brand of tires, he didn't point the finger at my particular set up just the wire wheels in general have a certain allowance for run out. Since the truing, I have had the car (TR2) up to 80 mph or so with great tracking and no vibration.

Hope this helps, let me know if you have any questions... Tim

 

[martx-5]

When I bought my wire wheels and tires from Hendrix Wire Wheel, they re-trued the NEW wires as they like to see tighter tolerances. Dayton and Dunlop allow 0.040", Allan Hendrix tightens the tolerances to 0.020". After mounting and balancing, they also shave the tires round. I've had my TR3 up to about 95 mph, and the tires are incredibly smooth. I believe that tire shaving really does make a difference.

 

[BillyB62]

I put four new tires on today and took her out for a test ride. I had the car up to about 85 (well, on the speedometer!) and it ran smooth as silk......thanks again to all that chimed in.

 

[NutmegCT]

I put four new tires on today and took her out for a test ride. I had the car up to about 85 (well, on the speedometer!) and it ran smooth as silk......thanks again to all that chimed in.

Bill - congrats on the improvement. What caused the original problem? Just the tires? No other correction needed?

Tom

 

[BillyB62]

It was odd Tom.... I took it to work in July and it ran great on he way in. On the way home, it developed an extremely bad shake. I did the normal tests for tie rod and wheel bearings and knew it had issues....one thing led to another and I ended up replacing most of the front end.

This weekend I took it to the Norwich car show and the front turn signal lens fell off. Although not bad, it looks as if the front bumpers are pushed in and I have a little front end damage. I wouldn't have missed the chipped paint when waxing it the night before taking into work, so I can only figured someone backed into me at work.

 

[TR3Alex]

Hi Bill, any news? What caused the real shaky problem? Got some shaking myself….
thanks!!
Alexander

 

[sp53]

Good news Bill. What type and brand tires did you get?

steve

 

[CJD]

This is why I always try to close out my threads. Poor Alexander has been anxiously waiting 8 years for Bills solution!