Torque wrench

[TomMull]

This topic got worn out quickly on the Triumph Forum so I'll phrase it a bit differently (I've seen and perhaps caused my share of stripped splines and threads on wire wheels and hubs):

Should one use an impact wrench on hex spinners on wire wheels?
If so, is an impact wrench, perhaps with a torque stick, more or less accurate than whacking the spinner "tight" with a lead hammer and a wood spanner?
And finally, if one were to use a click torque wrench, what should the setting be?

Tom

 

[TR3driver]

My answer is still the same : I don't trust an impact wrench.

I also use a good steel spanner, like the factory supplied with the 'safety' knockoffs. I would much rather risk a bit of cosmetic damage to the knockoff, than having a wheel work loose.

 

[PAUL161]

I've always used a pure lead hammer. I smack them until their tight and then give them one more shot. I've never, (knock on wood), had one loosen. The wood wrenches don't hold up. By them selves and no hammer or cheater, the nuts are not tight enough. Smack them with a hammer and they'll disintegrate in no time at all. The wood wrench was made to protect the chrome, a pure lead hammer will do the same. The chrome wing nuts on the wifes 72 show car has been on and off since 2005! They still look like new today. Not a scratch or mark on any of them.
I have no idea of the torque it would take to tighten one up where it should be. You'd probably have to pull a trailer just to carry the torque wrench big enough to do the job.

This is how they look today!

 

[CinneaghTR]

5lb hammer here, too

I got mine from Hendrix Wire Wheel. Actually, call them and see what they say...

 

[DrEntropy]

Back in 1969 when I'd had my first MGB a couple weeks, one of my uncle's friends who had one also, asked me if I knew how tight to make those spinners. "ummm...no." said moi. His reply was: "As tight as ya can f*&%^g make 'em. They'll only come off once, otherwise."

A friend in the newspaper business handed me a lead press ingot, 2" diameter, 8" long. Still have it, never left a mark and never lost a wheel.

While working as a wrench in the shop, we made sure to have a tool for all the various spinners so's we could impact them with a lead hammer. No client ever lost a wheel that I know of, and I suspect if it had happened we'd have heard about it!

IMO, the only "down-side" to splined hubs (regarding maintenance, not performance here) is negligence. Lack of grease.

 

[TomMull]

Not the same, I know, but interesting? torque wrench on center splines
The impact certainly lacks the accuracy of a torque wrench but does not lack the power. If we consider the threaded spline to be a bolt and the spinner a nut (I understand that that is probably a mistaken assumption) then the torque number would be around a ton. In short, It would seem that brute force rather than accuracy is what is called for (all moot, of course with winged spinners).
Tom

 

[PAUL161]

There are always going to be suggestions for a better idea, that's human nature, but tried and proven methods have always been my way of doing things. To me and I believe in torque wrenches in their proper place, have no place on a splined wheel wing nut! Hammers create a shock, the same as an impact wrench does and that is what is needed to secure them properly. As Doc says, lubrication of the spline is important. If you haven't pulled yours in a while, I'd advise you to do it. You accomplish two things, the spline gets lubricated and the nuts get reset. I use copper anti-seize on my splines, but that's just my preference, grease is good, but I find it doesn't last as long and has a tendency to run out of the hub when hot. Anti-seize sticks a little better. PJ

Aside from the breaker bar, Torque wrenches are one of the most miss used tools by the novice. Most are not accurate and need calibrating and the Chinese junk make a fair breaker bar with a pipe cheater. If you must use a torque wrench on anything, get one from SnapOn, Mac or any top brand, make sure it's calibrated. Don't use the Chinese HF junk, your inviting disaster! Plus the fact that there are factors that some users don't take in to consideration, like are the bolts tightened with dry threads, or lubricated threads. Are they torqued warm or cold? Makes a big difference in the readings. Just a thought. PJ

 

[TR3driver]

The impact certainly lacks the accuracy of a torque wrench but does not lack the power.

I wouldn't even necessarily agree with that. Many years ago, I watched a professional mechanic try to remove a lug nut with his air impact wrench. After a minute or two of letting it pound away with no movement; he grabbed a breaker bar and took the nut right off.

Now granted, that was probably a "tire changing" impact wrench that didn't develop as much torque as say, an IR 2130. But with the breaker bar, you know what you are getting.

 

[equiprx]

.......... like are the bolts tightened with dry threads, or lubricated threads. Are they torqued warm or cold? Makes a big difference in the readings. Just a thought. PJ

How in the world does one get the data for wet or dry, hot or cold, since the service manuals don't specify and correct torque data is hard enough to find as it is. And since all I can afford is a HF torque wrench, isn't that better than none?

 

[70herald]

.......... like are the bolts tightened with dry threads, or lubricated threads. Are they torqued warm or cold? Makes a big difference in the readings. Just a thought. PJ

How in the world does one get the data for wet or dry, hot or cold, since the service manuals don't specify and correct torque data is hard enough to find as it is. And since all I can afford is a HF torque wrench, isn't that better than none?

Most likely the data is for cold since a disassembled engine usually doesn't get to hot. Wet / dry is a bigger questions and has been debated forever. ARP includes a special lubricant with their hardware.

As for the cheapy HF torque wrench, it is probably the spring type? you can check them for accuracy at home fairly easily. Just google. basically the idea is to use it to lift a known weight on a bar of a know length, calculate torque and compare with the reading.

 

[TomMull]

The impact certainly lacks the accuracy of a torque wrench but does not lack the power.

Many years ago, I watched a professional mechanic try to remove a lug nut with his air impact wrench. After a minute or two of letting it pound away with no movement; he grabbed a breaker bar and took the nut right off.

Yep, Randall, I had an impact like that once myself.
Tom

 

[TR3driver]

How in the world does one get the data for wet or dry, hot or cold, since the service manuals don't specify

Unless otherwise specified, the service manual data is for cold and dry.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] and correct torque data is hard enough to find as it is.[/QUOTE]
If they don't specify, then generally the 'standard' torque for that fastener size and grade will do. Much like the owner's manual assumes you know how to drive a car; the service manual assumes that you know the basics of working on a car and only supplies the things that are (relatively) unique to the case at hand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] And since all I can afford is a HF torque wrench, isn't that better than none? [/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. With practice, you can get pretty good doing it "by feel"; but with an inaccurate torque wrench you won't know there is anything wrong until something fails.

 

[TomMull]

Here is a chart that would cover something the size of a wheel spline: Torque list by size
Tom

 

[TR3driver]

Yeah, but that is bolted joint information. Wire wheels, with all those tapers and whatnot, are a somewhat different kettle of fish.

 

[TomMull]

True enough but no other data more specific than "tight" that I can find. Tom

 

[TR3driver]

Lets see if this comes through big enough to be legible:

 

[DrEntropy]

Sweet, Randall! :thumbsup:

That torque table (or one like it) has always been in the toolbox, along with drill charts and conversion tables.

And THIS BOOK is a great reference work when Google isn't at hand. :wink: