Mid engined Jaguar

[Rick H.]

Does anyone know the name given to the mid engined Jaguar prepared for Le Mans in the sixties but never run. How many of these prototypes existed and hwo many are still around. Also I was wondering about pictures for the Rover turbin race car from around that time. I would sure love to do a painting on that car.

Rick H.

 

[Steve]

Hi Rick, the Jaguar was the XJ13, and there was only one ever made. This car was driven to a new track record at MIRA in the UK by David Hobbs, and the record was only just recently broken by a McLaren F1. The car was subsequently wrecked when a tyre blew at high speed whilst being driven by senior Jaguar test driver Norman Dewis, but has been rebuilt and restored.

[ 01-18-2003: Message edited by: Steve ]</p>

 

[Sherlock]

Hi Rick,

For a picture of the Rover-BRM turbine race car you might be able to find something online.

Also check the December 1993 issue of Thoroughbred & Classsic Cars magazine. They did an feature article on the Rover-BRM in that issue. I might even have one kicking around my place, if you want I could try to check for you.

 

[Rick H.]

Steve thanks for the information.It is a shame that it never raced a Le Mans but maybe it was just as well since Ford and Porsche were really putting the steam on in trying to win this prestegious race.

Sherlock,

I will look on line but if you can allow me to see the image that too would be helpful. Who is the curent owner of the Rover Nameplate. There has been so many name changes and transfer of ownership ot British cars that I can hardly keep track.

Rick

 

[XJRpilot]

steve is correct. it is the xj13. there is only 1 in existance. british racing green wouldnt you know! i have it displayed on my property (a die cast model on my shelf!). actually its in the jaguar heritage trust collection in coventry. to me it looks a little like the f-type, the car jaguar never produced because ford pulled the plug at the last minute. it was a go for production in 2002-3, but as i said ford pulled the plug because they felt there wouldnt be a market.
base price would have been around $40,000 to compete with the porsch boxster and the beemer coupe. it would have given the germans a run for their money. i guess it would not have sold as many units as the ford focus!!!

 

[Sherlock]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Rick H said: I will look on line but if you can allow me to see the image [Rover-BRM LeMans race car] that too would be helpful. Who is the curent owner of the Rover Nameplate. There has been so many name changes and transfer of ownership ot British cars that I can hardly keep track.<hr></blockquote>

You will probably find something online. I just did a quick search, typed in "Rover-BRM" on Yahoo, and came up with quite a few hits, now the next challenge would be to wade through all the hits to find a suitable picture.

 

[Rick H.]

Thanks Sherlock,

On the question of Ford pulling the plug on the f type Ford must be given some credit. With most of the British Car industry in foreign hands I personnaly feel that Ford was the right company to have purchased Jaguar and Aston Martin. If I am not mistaken it seems that there has been more involvement between Ford and a number of British makes throughout the decades. They include the Lola that became the GT 40, the Cobras, Lotus and Cosworth. Also Chrysler and GM have had associations with manufacturers such as Roots, transmissions for Rolls Royces and possibly others.

Though Ford has involved itself in cost cutting moves that have had the effect of Jaguar sharing platforms with the likes of Lincolns, on the whole they have allowed Aston Martin and Jaguar to continue producing some nice sports cars with minimal interference and with the new GT 40 coming out lets hope that there will also be a continuation of the tradition of exciting and quick high end sports cars being designed and produced in future. Let me know your thoughts on this.

Rick H.

 

[Rick H.]

Thanks for the info on the f type XJRPilot

 

[XJRpilot]

rick,
yes you are right, but i feel ford made a big mistake when they cancelled the f-type at the last minute. i have a full press pack folder
that was released by jaguar announcing the go ahead of the f-type, as well as alot of valuable pics and sketches. the press pack is worth something now. more then the f-type. the germans
broke some sweat when it was announced, but regained their composure when it was cancelled.
i shouldnt complain though, jaguar did produce the x-type all wheel drive. it competes well with the bimmmer all wheel drive 325. better in my opinion. yes i'm mad at ford for the f-type, but i thank them for saving jaguar, and aston martin
from the clutches of someone else and the possibility of being a memory. besides ford did a
wham bang job with lotus when they produced the ford/lotus cortina in the sixties (i was a toddler). so there is some very positive
points for ford. yes there is.

 

[Rick H.]

The main problem as I see it is that more buyers for sports cars are instead looking for Grand Touring vehicles such as the Mercedes SLs and hot running sedans.The powerful sports cars are left to Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari to build. Aston Martin seems to have also done a good job. I am sure that market trends are what is keeping a realy powerful Jaguar from being built.

Rick H.

 

[Steve]

Hi Rick, hi guys.

A good conversation, I'm enjoying this thread. To throw my hat into the ring here, I would like to make the observation that towards the end of its life, embodied in the 3 series, the E-Type became more of that "Grand Tourer" as opposed to an outright sports car, as it was at its inception. The XJ-S merely followed on from that point, and it was only its unfortunate styling that kept it from being a runaway success, opening the door then for the SL Mercedes to gain in popularity.

I think that the F-Type would have been a success, and that it's only the present economic climate that it really preventing its launch. Remember, Jaguar got their fingers rather badly burned during the last recession, when they were left holding a lot of exotics, such as the XJ-220 and the XJ-R15 that they had to sell off at fire-sale rates and start a racing series for, just to move them. It is,in my opinion, just a matter of timing. We may well see this car once the economic situation has improved again.

 

[youngsmith]

I too was greatly saddened by the fact that ford pulled the plug on the f-type. If they had built it, it was going to be the first, and perhaps only, car that I would have purchased new. Yup, now I'll just have to drive my Old british tin.

Tony

 

[XJRpilot]

hold on a second!
every xj-220 that was produced (hand made) sold with out any problems despite its 240,000 dollar price tag.
elton john even bought one. most of the cars went to collectors and sports car fanatics. believe it or not the japanese customers bought big. they bought a few of the xj 220's produced. i cant remember what the total number produced was but it was under 20. it was road legal everywhere except the u.s of a.
it had the honor of being the worlds fastest production car at the time, and still is in the top three. 217mph, all with a twin turbo V6.
it should be noted that the current S-type R
is in the top 10 fastest production cars made today. JAGUAR should be allowed to flex its arms more than ford currently allows them. remember, when the xk-120 was first unveiled it was the fastest production car of its day. GRACE,SPACE AND PACE!!!

[ 01-21-2003: Message edited by: XJRpilot ]</p>

 

[Steve]

Well, I have no wish to take issue with you on that subject, and to a point you are quite correct, Jaguar had all of its XJ220s sold to the extent that it had orders and deposits for every one of its production run. I do remember however that this car was launched just as the collectors car bubble was about to burst, and when the crash happened, many of those people cancelled their orders and tried to get their deposits back, as they could no longer afford the cars. This was, as I recall, during the last recession so the customers legitimately were "broke" (relatively speaking, of course).

Jaguar filed a number of lawsuits to hold people to their contracts, but unfortunately failed, as thecourts took the stance that if the customer no longer had the funds, you couldn't get blood out of a stone. So Jaguar were left with a number of very expensive cars on their hands, which were (eventually) sold at clearance prices.

 

[XJRpilot]

and you too are very correct with your last post.
its great when were both correct!

 

[78Z]

is this it?

very nice looking!

 

[78Z]

oh and here is a nice little link

https://www.ciltd.co.uk/Replica/xj13story.htm

 

[Sherlock]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Sherlock said to Rick H. earlier: Also check the December 1993 issue of Thoroughbred & Classsic Cars magazine. They did an feature article on the Rover-BRM in that issue. I might even have one kicking around my place, if you want I could try to check for you. <hr></blockquote>

Rick,

I found that magazine issue, it has some nice clear pictures, both colour pictures and black and white period pictures.

If interested get in touch with me, you can contact by e-mail (in my profile above) and we can make some arrangements.

 

[Rick H.]

When I first realized of its existence about 20 years ago I was floored. It seems to be the transition from front engined 260GTs and 250LMs on one end and the Ford GT on the other. It still retains the classic laines of the 50s and early 60s.Thank heaven for prototypes and show cars at least.

Thanks for the info guys and the pictures help.

Also, on the XJ 220 many were dissapointed that it was not more like the XJ R-15. I also heard that the customers were dissapointed that there were only 6 cylinders as apposed to 12.

 

[Rick H.]

Sorry I meant 250 GTs and mid engined 250LMs.

Rick H.