front brake hose question-BN6

[nevets]

Moss lists the same part number for a BN6 front brake hose as for a TR4. I called and spoke with a Moss rep to verify that this was not a misprint. He said it wasn’t so I ordered the part. When comparing the new part with the one on the car, the new part is noticeably shorter, though not a lot shorter. It looks like it might work but I’m not absolutely certain the service loop will be long enough. I don’t want to install the part only to find that it’s wrong and un-returnable.

Any advice?

 

[Randy Forbes]

Check for strain at full bump/full bounce and extreme left/right steering position at full bump/bounce.

A lot of trouble, up to and including removing the spring (unless you have another method, i.e. tying the car down and using a jack) but absolutely worth it in comparison to potentially devastating consequences.

I have BN7 disc brakes, so I have no basis for comparing the Moss hose.

 

[HealeyRick]

Check for strain at full bump/full bounce and extreme left/right steering position at full bump/bounce.

A lot of trouble, up to and including removing the spring (unless you have another method, i.e. tying the car down and using a jack) but absolutely worth it in comparison to potentially devastating consequences.

I have BN7 disc brakes, so I have no basis for comparing the Moss hose.

I would think that when the cars were designed, these tests (and more) were part of the process. And the length established was what was deemed necessary for safety while the requirements of saving money in production would have prevented the engineers from just adding in a couple of extra inches per hose, just to be extra safe. I looked at the application for Goodgridge braided hoses and they are showing two different part numbers for the BN6 and the TR4: https://www.goodridge.net/documents/downloads/retail/UK/car_app_guide_2012_uk_rrp_plated.pdf Since the brake hose is such a critical safety item, especially if you're not running a dual circuit master cylinder, I personally wouldn't take a chance and I'd find something that matches the original specs or would upgrade to a braided hose.

 

[Duane_Rhynard]

Nevets,

For a point of reference, the old front hose on my BN6 measures 13-1/2" long from end to end and was on the car for over 20 years.

Duane
'58 BN6

 

[nevets]

Thanks for the feedback.
I would prefer a hose that matches the one on the car. I'll research other providers and also look into the braided hose option.

 

[nevets]

Thanks Duane

I checked the length of the new part and it's 13-1/2" overall. Comparing it again to the hose that's on the car it actually may be closer in size than I originally estimated.

The reason I'm replacing the hoses is that one of my front brakes started rubbing and it was suggested that this may be due to the hoses deteriorating/swelling on the inside. Sounds reasonable since even with the adjusters backed off to the max, the drum still rubs. I pulled the drum off and noticed some whitish crud under the rubber boot on one of the wheel cylinders…probably not a good sign. See attached photo. Very humid around here and the car is not driven much. Perhaps time for a hydraulics overhaul?

 

[HealeyRick]

If you check Moss, they're running a good sale right now on brake parts. I'd be tempted to just buy some new cylinders and replace them, rather than messing about with a repair kit. You may want to check your m/c and rear cylinders as well. I just replaced my m/c and found that Pegasus Racing is still able to provide Girling units at reasonable prices.

 

[nevets]

Thanks for the suggestion Rick
Is it more cost effective to buy new wheel cylinders /master cylinder than sending them off to someplace like Apple for a rebuild?

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Thanks for the suggestion Rick
Is it more cost effective to buy new wheel cylinders /master cylinder than sending them off to someplace like Apple for a rebuild?

If it was my car(mine came from the NorthEast), I would not only replace ALL Master & Slave & wheel cylinders(Calipers can be easily rebuilt), but New Brake lines/hoses may also be in order. I found it more "Cost effective" to replace heavily corroded parts than to have them resleeved.

 

[HealeyRick]

Thanks for the suggestion Rick
Is it more cost effective to buy new wheel cylinders /master cylinder than sending them off to someplace like Apple for a rebuild?

I think if the brake parts were rare and expensive, resleeving would be the way to go. But the standard Healey stuff is pretty plentiful and not that expensive. If you want to experience shipwright's disease, you can replace everything and switch over to silicon fluid as well and you'll be good for a number of years.

 

[Johnny]

I've always bought new when available. When you consider shipping (both ways for rebuilds) I think you'll find the cost to be negligible.

 

[nevets]

Based on what I've read about silicone brake fluid, I'll stick with the Girling/Castrol type.
I'll look into replacing the cylinders and check out the Moss sale as well, thanks.

As an aside, the car was a restored CA Healey purchased restored by me about 12 years ago, since then it has been in the Northeast. During that time I replaced the brake fluid only once. The rubbing brake drum is the only brake issue to date. Am I correct in assuming that that crud on the brake cylinder is desiccated brake fluid?

 

[Randy Forbes]

Based on what I've read about silicone brake fluid, I'll stick with the Girling/Castrol type.
I'll look into replacing the cylinders and check out the Moss sale as well, thanks.

As an aside, the car was a restored CA Healey purchased restored by me about 12 years ago, since then it has been in the Northeast. During that time I replaced the brake fluid only once. The rubbing brake drum is the only brake issue to date. <span style="font-weight: bold">Am I correct in assuming that that crud on the brake cylinder is desiccated brake fluid?</span>

More likely the remains of oxidized aluminum (the element returning back to the earth...).

I would replace them rather than resleeve.

Then, replace the brake fluid every two (2) years (or, replace all the cylinders in another 12).

Healey Rick: the point of checking bump/bounce was if the original poster had decided to use a brake hose that the length was suspect; I'd expect a correctly specified part to fit, though when they're being fitted, it's easy to check full left/right clearance at full droop. It's the full bump tests that are a pita.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Based on what I've read about silicone brake fluid, I'll stick with the Girling/Castrol type.
I'll look into replacing the cylinders and check out the Moss sale as well, thanks.

As an aside, the car was a restored CA Healey purchased restored by me about 12 years ago, since then it has been in the Northeast. During that time I replaced the brake fluid only once. The rubbing brake drum is the only brake issue to date. Am I correct in assuming that that crud on the brake cylinder is desiccated brake fluid?

Yep, that's what DoT3/4 looks like when it crystallizes/gels, which it tends to do, esp. when the brakes aren't exercised regularly and/or the BF isn't replaced every few years (one of the reasons silicone BF was developed by/for the the military).

 

[HealeyRick]

Healey Rick: the point of checking bump/bounce was if the original poster had decided to use a brake hose that the length was suspect; I'd expect a correctly specified part to fit, though when they're being fitted, it's easy to check full left/right clearance at full droop. It's the full bump tests that are a pita.

Randy,

I totally agree with your point. What I was trying to say, perhaps not clearly enough, was that <span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> the Moss specified part was shorter than that originally supplied, it shouldn't be up to the consumer to determine if it will perform with equal safety to an OEM part. If I'm buying a direct replacement part of a safety related item, I expect to be able to bolt it on and that it should perform like an original. (I'm not sure at this point, whether there is any difference between the Moss part and an original as NEVets has indicated in a later post that there may not be a difference)

I may be overreacting, but after one supplier provided Moss with brake masters that required a recall: https://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/BrakeMasterRecall.pdf I'm wary of any part that doesn't meet original design specs. I can accept the fact that a repro grille isn't made to the same quality as an original, but it's a whole different ballgame when we're talking the braking system.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Healey Rick: the point of checking bump/bounce was if the original poster had decided to use a brake hose that the length was suspect; I'd expect a correctly specified part to fit, though when they're being fitted, it's easy to check full left/right clearance at full droop. It's the full bump tests that are a pita.

Randy,

I totally agree with your point. What I was trying to say, perhaps not clearly enough, was that <span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> the Moss specified part was shorter than that originally supplied, it shouldn't be up to the consumer to determine if it will perform with equal safety to an OEM part. If I'm buying a direct replacement part of a safety related item, I expect to be able to bolt it on and that it should perform like an original. (I'm not sure at this point, whether there is any difference between the Moss part and an original as NEVets has indicated in a later post that there may not be a difference)

I may be overreacting, but after one supplier provided Moss with brake masters that required a recall: https://www.mossmotors.com/SiteGraphics/Pages/BrakeMasterRecall.pdf I'm wary of any part that doesn't meet original design specs. I can accept the fact that a repro grille isn't made to the same quality as an original, but it's a whole different ballgame when we're talking the braking system.

We are in complete agrrement here!

 

[57_BN4]

I got replacement brake hoses from one of the UK suppliers and they were about an inch or so shorter than the originals. They are bent quite tight at full droop/lock but on the other hand the originals have a polished wear mark on the side like they were rubbing on the tyre or something. One annoyance of the repro hoses is that the inner-end hex is smaller than original and they don't lock into the holding plate properly.

Guess I'm on the other side of the fence from you guys about brake cylinder sleeving, I like to see the original Girling name and part number on the wheel cylinders rather than a generic replacement. It took me six months to hunt down a used 1" rear cylinder so I could have it resleeved. There is a company that does them here for about $35 each in stainless so pretty hard to beat.

I have also heard a lot of bad things about silicone brake fluid but have experienced none in the last five years or so of using it. Have experienced far more bad things from using regular brake fluid.

Andy.

 

[nevets]

One more question concerning replacement parts. For certain brake parts, such as wheel cylinders and brake shoe return springs, there appears to be a distinction between disk wheels and wire wheels (different part numbers). My car has wire wheels but I believe it originally came equipped with disk wheels (four bolts retain the brake drum which I believe is a disk wheel feature but I’m not 100% certain). My question is should I buy brake parts for disk or wire wheels?

Thanks

 

[red57]

Stick with wire wheel stuff. The front hubs are different for disc wheels, 5 studs hold the discs on instead of 4 for the drums. The rears use a totally different drum for disc wheels. The rear cylinders are a different bore size for cars with front discs than cars with front drums but I don't think wire vs disc wheels make a difference. I think other hardware like springs are the same but not certain.

Dave