Engine build problems. Desperately need help :,[

[lesingepsycho]

OK. The new engine is in the car and been through all the appropriate steps but I'm still having some major issues.

<span style="font-weight: bold">The Issue:</span> Smoking like crazy; blueish smoke, smells extremely rich, can't tune it out

<span style="font-weight: bold">The Knowns:</span>
1)ALL BRAND NEW ENGINE
2)Good compression all around - All 4 at 150psi on my gauge
3)Dead on timing, timing adjustments make no difference
4)Carb adjustments make no difference
5)Spark plugs are DARK brown and DRY, NOT oily, all 4 match
6)O2 sensor is DARK brown and DRY, NOT oily
7)Head torqued and retorqued & valves adjusted and readjusted at .014"
8)Low-ish vacuum reading (see Camshaft)

<span style="font-weight: bold">The Variables/Possibilities/Considerations:</span>
1)Camshaft is an Elgin Racing cam for a turbo or supercharged motor. Currently I'm running carb only, no boost (Weber DGV). 286 degrees duration/66 degrees overlap/110deg lobe centers IO:33deg IC:73 EO:73 EC:33 0.303" lift
2)Newly refreshed cylinder head but I'm not quite sure about the stem seals. I know that it has new valves, seats, springs and retainers but I'll have to find the receipt to see what/if anything else was done.
3)This was odd; With exhaust and intake manifolds off, cranking the engine produced puffs of dark gray/blueish "smoke" at the exhaust ports.
4)It's like it is not getting a complete burn, even when the O2 sensor is telling the gauge it is running lean. But I don't necessarily trust this O2&gauge combo. Just a guideline.

I'm at a loss guys. I'm at the end of my rope. I don't have the turbo setup ready for the car yet but I thought I would be able to run on this motor without the turbo. This is my daily driver and it has been out of comission for 3 weeks now. Luckily I can get to work on my bicycle. I really need a car though so any input will be greatly appreciated.

JACK

 

[aeronca65t]

Assuming the O2 sensor is wrong....

Do you have too much fuel pressure? (5 psi is plenty)
Float in carb set too high?
Bad float valve in carb?

I'm not familiar with that cam, but improper cam timing can cause weird results like this too.

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Cam Timing would be my thought as well...

m

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Just curious, what did you have on the pistons and bores for assembly lube before cranking it?

What motor oil are using for break in?

 

[Guest]

This is my daily driver and it has been out of comission for 3 weeks now. Luckily I can get to work on my bicycle. I really need a car though so any input will be greatly appreciated.

JACK

This is why you don't hot rod your DD. My neice lives up there. She "bikes it" too.

Bad cam timing causing BLUE smoke? What's the theory on that? Never heard that before, intesting.

 

[texas_bugeye]

Assembly lube in the exhaust ports? How long have you run it? could it be burnig off assembley lube Mine smoked like crazy for awhile when I first got it going from rebulid.

 

[lesingepsycho]

Thanks for the replys,

aeronca65t - I have a regulator and fuel pressure gauge ensuring I have 2.5 lbs of fuel pressure. I checked the floats, needle and seat as well as the fuel level in the bowl and they are all as they should be. Adjusting the mixture doesn't seem to have too much effect. I can go lean until it sputters and dies and it is blowing smoke the whole way.

aeronca65t & SilentUnicorn - I used a cam wheel to time in the cam so that is as it should be as well.

Hap - Before breaking in, I just had non-detergent 30 weight engine oil lubricating new 21251 +.020" pistons and Deves rings. I ran the "Joe Gibbs Break-In oil with ZDDP 30w" ($$$) for 20 minutes at initial break in. I then drained all the oil and topped back up with Royal Purple 20w-50 and a touch of Lucas ZDDP additive. I've put $150.00 worth of oil through the engine and it has never left the driveway. I tried to follow the break-in guide provided with the cam as close to the letter as possible. I even pre-heated the oil before break-in as suggested in the instructions and I spun the engine with spark plugs out until I got an oil pressure reading before firing the engine. There was a lot of white smoke at first which I assumed was reasonable as all new engine break-ins smoke initially, but then the smoke has never gone away.

Chris - There shouldn't be any lube in the exhaust ports and I don't know how any would have got there. I have run the car for the initial 20 minute break-in and then it has probably seen an hour of run time just with me wrenching and tuning on it and it still smokes. I'm assuming that after an hour of run time at various engine speeds any "residue" would have burned off, but that's just an assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cam timing pic attached. Not that this shows anything but at least you know I'm not BS-ing. :wink:

Thanks everyone. You can see why I'm stumped

JACK

 

[texas_bugeye]

<span style="font-style: italic">The Issue: Smoking like crazy; blueish smoke, smells extremely rich, can't tune it out


There was a lot of white smoke at first which I assumed was reasonable as all new engine break-ins smoke initially, but then the smoke has never gone away.

Blue? fuel or oil
white? water</span>


When I put mine togather there was lube put on the valves prior to installing in the head it puddled on the backside of the valves by the time I got it started. Stunk and smoked at first but cleared up in less than ten minutes.
If your not seeing evedence of water or oil excesive fuel on the plugs it must be getting into the exhaust somehow? head gasket? Are the exhaust runners dry? has the coolant level changed?
Big lift cams can crush the valve steam seals and pump oil into the valve guide guide that will made her smoke...

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Quick check on cam....
TDC 180 off.
Which means, split overlap on the cylinder you are checking.
Find the top of the positon (piece of wire, working crank back and forth).
Pull valve cover.
Valves should be at about the same position, and move equally when rotating the same amount of crank travel both sides of TDC.

Quick check, anyway.

Keeps from having to tear everything down.

BTW, how old is your gas?
You didn't dump diesel into it by chance, or the chain saw mix?

 

[lesingepsycho]

Plug Chop

 

[JPSmit]

Not surprisingly, that colour says way too rich - can you clean the plugs and lean it out a couple of flats?

 

[lesingepsycho]

O2 Sensor deposit

 

[JPSmit]

BTW just sitting here thinking - we may be overthinking this - I wonder if your rings have seated?

 

[SilentUnicorn]

Looks like The weber is a bit rich...
I fought with mine till it won
won itself a place in the trash.

you have a 1275?

check the idle jets on either side of the carb...what sizes are they?

m

 

[Guest]

How's the power valve look? Functioning correctly?

Who built the motor?

 

[lesingepsycho]

Thanks everybody.

I'll look into this some more this week. I'll get the jet sizes and check the power valve. I pulled all the jets to make sure they were clear and they are but it may be that I just need to re-jet the carb (although it seems like more than that).

JACK

 

[Hap Waldrop]

20 minutes is not a sufficent break in period, most of the time rings don't completely seat until the engine is driven under a load, if you put snyhtetic oil in a engine after 20 minutes of run time, bingo there's your problem, break in oil should be run 500 miles, and only then after your are perfectly positive break in has occured, switch to snythetic oil, not shooting the hip , try to break a race engine in on synthetic oil one time at the advice of the oil guy (never listen to those jokers) and the rings wouldn't seat, endien up takingthe engine apart and cleaning it, scotchbriting the rings and reassembling the thing, valueable lesson.

I get rid of the RP oil, and put the gibbs, VR1, a petro oil back in, running a hotter plug and driving it, so it's under a load.

 

[texas_bugeye]

Waho that's NOT dark brown..Definitly rich could be jetting but I would start with the float level and the power valve. That o2 is going to take some time at temp to cleanup and read correct.My experence on my car was to run the float level slightly less than the quoted.

 

[lesingepsycho]

OK. That's definitely what I'll try next. An oil change is definitely the easiest fix at this point.

I followed all of the recommendations for breaking-in the <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">camshaft </span></span>but I guess I didn't know/realize that the rings would need more or different procedure.

I ran the engine some last night and the smoking was starting to subside so I will take that as evidence that the rings are starting to seat and as they seat, it will get progressively less smoky. At least the smoking is down to a point where I feel like I <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">can </span></span>drive it on the street without laying down such a smoke screen as to cause the guy behind me to crash!

JACK

 

[Silverghost]

Hey, if you REALLY want to see a smoke screen, just let the turbo on a new Beetle self destruct - DESPITE proper oil changes and all required maintenances - TWICE!!! The second time was less than 6 months after the first one went. Smoke was so thick you'd have thought it was one of those trucks the city uses to fog for mosquitos in the spring. Thankfully all was covered by warranty since I could prove the maintenance schedule was followed with receipts, etc.