BJ8 Shocks and Front End

[stever]

Well, guys, I am back in "Healey Mode"... My attention has been diverted by career changes, family stuff and all the 'real world' clutter that seems to get in the way of my enjoying the Healey for a couple of years now. Things have sorted out and stabilized - despite a daughter's upcoming wedding in January - so I am now starting back on the Healey. She has been sitting neglected for some time but started up on first crank and was a blast to drive last weekend. Rediscovered my joy when in the cockpit of that old beast! However, the front end is a bit worn. I know that the king pins are a bit worn and I still don't like the way the car rides. The rest of the front end seems to be pretty tight. So, I am going to redo the king pins for sure. Is there anything else that I should do while in there? I have new rotors and front hubs to install and figure I probably should replace the wheel bearings, too. Also the brake pads. Have already replaced connecting rod ends. Another real question is whether I should replace the standard shocks with the Bilstein tube shock kit from Fahrpass? I just have the hankering to do that. I wonder if I am expecting too much from the old beast? - I am driving a 2006 Mazda MX-5 with all the suspension options these days and the Healey just seems so much the antique in comparison....but then it is! Seriously, what is the collective forum viewpoint on this? I have newly rebuilt front shocks and the rears are full of fluid and don't leak. The bolts are tight. On smooth road it is fine, but on the unevenly patched sections of pavement it feels like one is driving on terribly washboarded dirt roads...very unsmooth. Am I expecting too much? I have owned this car since 1972 and used to drive it hard in all conditions but am now reluctant to get on it at all.... I know this is a long post, but do need to "discuss" this - and who better than you guys??

 

[HEALEYJAG]

Stever:

When I was taking my 20 yr old daughter out in the E-type for the first time. (She had grown -up around Healys her entire life), she remarked "Oh my god, Dad, the Jag is smooth like a real car!!"

She has always been in a Healey since birth...So I guess it is the nature of the beast..I would be interested to hear the opinions of those who have converted their shocks...


Pete

 

[tahoe healey]

In my opinion, with everything in proper working order the original stuff is fun and exciting. After all, isn't the antiquity the reason to own a LBC? It was outstanding in its day. My Porsche is a fine driving insturment that takes over on the road. Very boring. I drive it all week and cannot wait to get in the Healey on weekends. (Driving season is now over due to snow but maintance season begins)

 

[John Loftus]

When I first drove my BJ7 it was a rough driver. Almost everything was out of tune or worn out (shocks, steering, brakes, accelerator linkage and exhaust to name a few). It really felt like an antique and was a bear to drive. After attending to these areas as a rolling restoration I couldn't believe how smooth and modern it felt .. especially for a 40+ year old car. It still requires much more from the driver than a modern sports car but that does keep it exciting and invigorating. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

Sounds like you are checking the right areas. Also have someone move the steering wheel back and forth while you check for play in the idler, steering box and links. When you do the king pins and the shocks are not hooked to the trunnion, move the shock arms up and down to see if you have smooth resistance in both directions of travel. You shouldn't have 'gaps' of no resistance. My car was very smooth after new (rebuilt) shocks, bearings, hubs, king pins, wheels, tires and idler rebuild.

Cheers,
John

 

[vette]

Steve, IMHO, YOU WILL NEVER GET A HEALEY TO DRIVE AND FEEL LIKE A MAZDA MX5. Of coarse you know that. BUT, your Healey can be relatively tight. I wouldn't change the swivel pins unless they realy are loose. Do they take grease? With the tie rod ends off do the swivel pins turn easily? Can you introduce any play into the joints at top and bottom? If all this is tight yet free, then they are ok. Make sure your lower aframe attachment points are in good shape. And the rubber bushings are good. And NOW check to see if the shock absorber mounting screws have not stripped out of the mounting top plate. See if the shock is moving on its mount. If so, you can buy new shock mounting top plates. They have to be welded in. I fabricated a 3/16th steel plate and cut my frame open then installed the plate under the shock mounting. This had new threaded holes which I precisely located for the shock bolts. I wrote this up in Healey Marque magazine about five years ago how I did it. (I think it was Healey Marque, it might have been the other club Mag, can't remember.) Also check your steering linkage, and the idler box. If everything is good , one way to get better handling on turns is to install a larger front sway bar. Anyway, these are just some ideas and opinions.
Good Luck.

 

[vette]

Oh, by the way. Loose wheel bearings, make sure they are set up right.

 

[bob hughes]

Steve

The sway bar can come in two more sizes, the next size up is a bolt on and the largest needs some welding. Try the roller bearings as a substitute for the oilite washers under the top trunnion - supposed to make the steering action easier, that's going to be one of my next little projects.

Bob

 

[stever]

Bob, if I go up a size in sway bars are there appropriate sized bushings available? Do they fit in the stock brackets or are there different and larger brackets?

I am surprised no one has really commented on the Bilstein shocks proposal.... I expected, while not vociferous, but perhaps 'strong' opinions to be expressed. I am not convinced that I need them yet. I intend to check out the shock mounts and do the king pins, etc. first. I was considering "doing it all at once" but am now thinking "one thing at a time" and to not sink unnecesary funds in the car that aren't needed. So, do any of you have the Bilsteins? Are they worth it? Problematic? Etc, etc....

 

[artmck]

Make sure the shocks are not siezed, or binding up on the way to being siezed. Can happen after sitting and will rip shock tower apart after a while.

Bilsteins are great I'm sure, but you may not really notice much from them if you are mostly just cruising and only want it to not feel too much like a truck.

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi Steve,
There are larger ID bushings available that will fit in your brackets.

Unless you are doing some serious competition I wouldn't go over 3/4" on the bar. It does put more strain on the suspension attaching points & makes the ride a bit harder.

Same with the shocks. It's surprising how well the stock shocks in "good" condition can work. I think I remember you going through the shock mounting plate replacement some time back?

A lot of the ride problem is caused by the very limited travel for the rear axle. Really not much you can do about it.
D

 

[stever]

Hello, Dave,
It has been awhile since I have worked on the Healey! I did indeed do some front suspension work a year or so ago that we corresponded on. However, I did not replace the shock mounting plates as mine are fine. I did, though, replace the shocks themselves with rebuilt units. I also put on new tie rod ends and aligned the front end. These helped quite a bit, but I still have a bit more "wander" in the steering than I prefer and have decided to rebush the king pins. While doing this, I am replacing the front hubs (replaced the rear ones last year. The "old" front hubs are not in bad condition but I decided to replace them anyway as I was going to have the things off, etc. Ditto on the rotors - replacing them, too, although they are only in need of surfacing machining. [If anyone needs these items contact me]. I am replacing the wheel bearings, brake pads, etc. too. I do not intend to replace the lower trunnion pins - the ones that mount the two lower arms on the frame.

I have started taking the king pins, etc. off the car. However, I have come to a "stopping point" at the last step as the little verticle pins (one on each side) that prevent the lateral movement of the threaded lower trunnions (where the king pins connect to the lower arms) will not come out! I have been using penetrant and tapping the ends with a hammer every evening for a week now and the darn things just don't want to come out. Everything else has gone well, but I cannot go any farther! So, here I am with the Healey all jacked up in the garage stall completely unmoveable now while two 1/4 inch pins (approx) won't come out.

I have thought this over and think that about all I can do is remove the spring mounting plate bolts where the lower wishbone arms attach and hope I can spread the arms apart enough to extract the king pins with the lower threaded trunnion pins still in the king pin trunnion. Is this feasible? will they separate that far without taking the pins out that mount the arms to the frame? I have heard that these are almost always frozen on and are a devil to get off. I really don't want to go there.

So, if you or any of my other friends here have any suggestions, I am sure open to hearing them! This is what I dislike about working on the Healey as every time I attempt to do anything something just doesn't want to cooperate! However, this is also what makes working on the Healey so fulfilling as when you do get it done it is a tremendous achievement!

So, any ideas are welcome. Also, assuming I ever get these things back together I will have a couple of decent-splined hubs and rotors available should anyone need them.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Also, Happy New Year!

 

[Randy_Gay]

Did you take out the tapered keeper that keeps the trunnion in place?

 

[Dave Russell]

Hi Steve,
So that we are on the same page, see this pic:
https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28887

The lower fulcrum pin (65) is held to the front & rear suspension arms (20) by the threaded bushings (68 & 70).

These threaded bushings are prevented from turning by two "cotter pins" (73). The cotter pins are round with a flat tapered side & a nut on one end to pull them tight. Bicycle pedals use a similar pin on the cranks. Some motorcycle kick starter cranks also.

The cotter pins (73) must be released to unscrew the threaded bushings (68 & 70) from the fulcrum pin (65).

Additionally, there is another cotter pin (52) in the center which must be removed to release the fulcrum pin from the lower swivel pin housing.

Once the bushings & the center cotter (52) are removed, the lower fulcrum pin should come out.

These cotters are usually very tight & must be driven out with a drift/punch. They will likely be ruined & need to be replaced. If the bushings have been turned a bit they may be binding the tapered pins. It sometimes requires some very heavy hammering to get the pins out.

If this doesn't help, refer to the Moss item numbers for further discussion.

Best of luck,
D

 

[stever]

Hello, Dave. Item #52 is the tapered pin that is frozen in place. I have loosened the half moon pins (#73) and have removed the threaded bushes (#68) but the pin #65 although loose cannot be removed as #52 pin is still in there.

I suppose I will just keep on spraying the penetrant and pounding on the things. Can you hit on it too hard and damage anything else?

Steve

 

[Dave Russell]

The pin (52) is likely just stuck, maybe deformed. I think it is softer than anything else so just knock it out. It's just a straight taper, not half moon like the end pins. I said "it might take a large whack". I doubt if penetrant will help. A four pound lead hammer helps.

Once it starts to move, make sure that the punch doesn't gouge the fulcrum pin (65).

It's usually easier to remove this pin (52) first so that the end bushings hold fulcrum pin in alignment during removal.

I've had this fight with many Triumph motorcycle kick starters. They are however, easier to get to. Sorry it's causing problems.

I guess if you got really desperate you could saw the fulcrum pin off flush with each side to get the swivel pin out. Never had to do that though.
D

 

[stever]

Well, the darn pins broke free! I replaced the screw-in bushes which really tightened the assembly up, of course, and removed the grease fittings and used a small sledge and handle of a cold chisel and banged away. The passenger side broke free pretty quickly but the driver's side was really stubborn. I kept banging away, though, and finally it broke free. Both of the pins are ruined and will have to be replaced. So, now I am back on track to getting the king pins replaced/rebushed! Thank you for your assistance!