87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Problem

[Michael J.]

I stared having problems with the turn signals on my 87 XJ6. Signals were intermitent. The turn signals are wired through the Hazard Flasher Switch.

The Hazard Switch was jamned. I took it out, and disassembled it, not hard to do. The problem that I have now is that the wiring diagram indicates terminal numbers for five of eight of the Hazard Switch contacts, but the numbers do not match the contact functions in the switch depicted in the wiring diagram.

Can anyone provide the correct wire color to terminal code for the switch please?

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

that is an old error in the schematics which started back in the 1970's. sounds like you did not make a sketch of how the wires were connected before you removed them right?

you can look at the attached file to see if it makes any sense to you, or follow the following instructions after you first orient the switch correctly:

1) you should be sitting in the driver's seat;
2) you will need to hold the Hazard switch in its correct orientation, in other words, as it will be mounted;
3) there are some very small numbers on the side of the switch housing which should be facing the driver;
4) it is a lot easier to remove the Turn Signal switch assembly, and mount the Hazard switch to it with the two tiny phillips screws, before connecting the wires, since two of the wires end up on top of the holes for those two screws.

If the following instructions show a "V", it means the terminal on the switch is in a Vertical position when you are looking at it while sitting down; If it shows an "H", it means the terminal on the switch is in a Horizontal position;

Terminal 1 - H Light Green/Blue stripe
Terminal 2 - V Dark Green/White stripe
Terminal 3 - V Light Green/RED stripe
Terminal 4 - H Dark Green/Light Green stripe
Terminal 5 - (nothing)
Terminal 6 - V Light Green/Pink stripe
Terminal 7 - V Dark Green
Terminal 8 - H Brown/Orange stripe

The switch cover might jam because the opening of the steering column cover or "Nacelle" has a 1/8" error, in other words, the square hole is 1/8" too much forward or rearward after you fasten it in place with its 3 screws, depending on the particular car.

I corrected that by adding a 1/64" thick nylon washer to the rear "pin" of my switch, (there are 2 pins where the cover snaps onto), then I added grease over both pins to eliminate friction and now the switch is easy to turn on and off.

next time, where wiring is concerned, best to make a drawing before you disconnect everything!

Ex

NOTE: I can't attach a file to this reply, used to be I could, but I can't find any Options to do so.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

You are right, I assumed that since the wiring diagram indicated which wire went where, that I did not need to write down thew wire locations.

For those of you not familiar with the switch being discussed here, there are eight seperate blade connections rather than a simple connector that plugs onto the swith such as used with several otyher harness connectors on the XJ-6.

I ordered a replacement switch. I get signals, but you have to hold the hazard switch about 1/16th inch from the stop to get the connection and there are no four way flashers. I think that the white plastic slider inside the swich has a piece broken off and that was why the switch jamned. I'll let you know after I get to see the replacement switch.

The wire instructions above worked well! I encourage everyone to print out a copy, you may need it some day like I did.

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

it's very difficult to damage those Hazard switches, there's that movable white plastic slider section inside with the contacts, and that's it. That slider is made from a flexible white nylon, so I doubt it's broken, though it might be.

I think the black plastic cover over the switch, the one we push down to start the flashers, is the most prone to damage and the reason for the jamming, because it breaks on the two fastening "ears" right where the two "pins" from the housing go into it, throwing everything inside out of order.

You might have noticed that the cover has two inner posts with springs which press down on the white slider, moving it up or down, on or off.

I suggest you add some dielectric grease to both "pins", to the cover holes, and to the posts and springs, to avoid friction.

glad it worked out.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

I received the new switch from Welsh on Monday. The white nylon was broken with a "L" shaped piece loose in the box. Welsh told me that there were some problems with a batch of these switches about a year ago. They had me send it back to look at it. The switch in the car is also missing the "L" shaped piece, which is apparently why the four way flasher does not work.

More to come.

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

a new complete switch assembly costs around $25.00, what did it cost you at Welsh? (including returning the deffective part).

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Price was $24.95 plus $5.20 shipping, plus $4.55 to ship it back.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Welsh sent another switch with the same problem. It was the last one off the shelf. They are reordering from their supplier. Be about two - three weeks.

The switch in the car and the two replacements did not have the springs described by Exotexs installed on the posts as described above. Perhaps that has something to do with the problem?

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Michael, can you post of a picture of your switch? Also, what was exactly wrong with the two switches you received?

Those hazard switches are very simple, the only moving part inside is a white-nylon piece with a brass contact ribbeted in place; I am assuming your car is a Series 3 XJ-6.

If you remove the Hazard switch's Cover, (the part that snaps over the switch's square housing), you will notice that it has two molded, hollow, "posts" inside, and each post has a spring-and-pin inside which keep down-pressure over the white-nylon piece. You have to remove the Cover to see the parts I am talking about.

I find it easier to remove the hazard switch's cover in order to remove and reinstall the steering-column "Nacelles", (the upper and lower halves of black plastic covers right behind the steering wheel). That is exactly the reason why the Hazard Switches break, people force them "back" or "forward" when removing or reinstalling the two nacelle halves. To keep the white-nylon contact in place, I use dielectric grease to act as "glue" so it won't fall off, same for the springs in the cover.

Have you looked on the car's floor for the missing parts?
They obviously fell down, and there's a chance they might still be there under the mats, etc.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Exotexs;

I tried, but have not figured out how to attach a photo. We are supposed to be able to attach a photo file when previewing each post, but I have not been able to do it since the change to the new thread software took place. I see that you have figured out how to attach a photo. How did you do it?

Your description of the springloaded posts was helpful. Taking a small screw driver I noticed that both posts slide in and out against spring tension. In your earlier post, I was expecting to see springs around the posts much like the spring on a ball point pen refill. So the springs are there.

What is breaking is a piece of the white slider assembly. In the car and both new switches the white sliders were broken in the same manner. The "L" shaped piece is what seems to work the contacts for the four way flasher part of the switch. It is the part of the slider that can be seen when looking at the switch when it is in the normal up position.

What I first found in the car was the L shaped piece of white plastic laying on the carpet under the steering column. I did not immediatly make the connection as to where it was from. I figured it out when the switch no longer worked. I figured that out while trying to figure out why the turn signals were intermittent. One new switch had the broken piece loose in the box. On the latest, the yellow colored grease in the switch was sticking or holding the broken piece in place. The switch did not rattle in the box like the first new one received. Welsh had shaken the box, but had not cut the seal to inspect the second switch before they sent it. What happens is after the white nylon slider breaks, it rises up some and the pins hit the broken edge preventing the switch from rocking to the other position. The pins wedge against the broken edge of the nylon slider.

I can get the switch in the car to work after taking off the rocker and repositioning the slider so that the pins were no longer wedged against the edge where it broke. It works only intermittently. By applying a little downward force on the rocker it pushes the slider against the contacts enough so that the directional signal lights will work. I have a piece of cardboard wedged in place to keep the contacts in place while I wait for a good switch.

The grease lubicating the switch is not white lithium grease, nor is it like silicone dielectric bulb grease.

It feels and smells like the supplier that assembled these switches ran out of silicone grease and used a petroleum grease of some sort that has made the nylon brittle. The grease is much darker than Vasoline. The switch in the car and both new switches have this same yellowish grease.

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

I found how to attach files by accident:

click on 'REPLY' at the bottom of the post that you are reading, (( DO NOT click on 'QUICK REPLY' ))

A more advanced Editor is opened, and at the bottom of the typing box, you will see 'FILE MANAGER', where you click to 'BROWSE' for files and attach them.

I do notice that some files show up on the post, others just show the file name. must have to do with the size of the file.

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Yeahh, the famous white nylon piece. As long as the cover is pressing on it, you'll never lose it....and if you find it on the floor you don't recognize it! It happens to every Series 3 XJ owner at least once.

I know another place who has the hazard switches if you want the address just send a message. I don't want to post the site here.

Don't be concerned with the type of grease inside the switch, I rhink you could put Crisco lard or Vaseline in there and it would do the same thing, (prevent friction), actually Crisco might do a better job! I wonder if you have white plastic instead of nylon, because nylon is self-lubricating and flexible, it doesn't get brittle.

You'll need to remember why the switch broke in the first place: the top and bottom, black plastic halves (known as "nacelles") that cover the upper steering column, are to blame.

First, when you join the two nacelle halves in place, the square opening for the Hazard switch has an "error" of about a quarter inch, that causes an interferance with the way the hazard switch sticks out, and the nacelles can't be moved front or back because they are screwed in place, so the only part that can be moved forward to correct the "error" is the Turn Signal switch assembly which also includes the hazard switch mounted on it.

Second, you cannot remove or reinstall the bottom half of the nacelles because the Hazard switch is in the way!!
Unless you drop the entire steering column down, (not advisable). Again, you need to loosen the turn-signal switch assembly by loosening the screw that clamps it to the steering column, that way you can slide it or rotate it to ease the nacelle in or out. That screw and clamp is at the front of the steering column and at the bottom of the turn signal switch assembly. Takes a #3 Phillips screwdriver.

Another trick is to remove the Hazard Switch Cover, (the black plastic cover that has the graphic of the white triangle "Hazard" symbol facing the driver), then the bottom nacelle will pass easier in or out. The problem with this trick is that you can loose the springs, pins, or white nylon parts.

One thing is certain, the area of the hazard switch/turn signal switch/nacelles, is very sensitive to handling, my advise is to work very carefully and patiently. If you get frustrated, take a break, come back to it later.

I'm looking for a LED Torch bulb for the OptiCell unit. I get very little lighting at the fiber-optic light points. I want brilliant light. There's a company who sells one, but too expensive and I hear that is it not so bright anyway...

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

I was finally able to get a photo of the switch and broken piece for one of the new switches that was received. The photo is attached to the post. I appologize that I could not get a closeup view.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Let's try that again. It should be attached now!

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

did you try removing the cover and replacing the white nylon piece? having said that, the white nylon piece is known to fall off when the cover is removed, but not when the cover is on. that is weird. To remove the switch cover, you need a very small and thin flatblade screwdriver, then you carefully pry it up and forward at each "ear", (where each cover "ear" snaps with the "pins" at the switch housing).

Then you can re-assemble it, the white nylon piece goes one way only, at the bottom half of the switch.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

The piece that you see in the photo is broken off from the nylon slider. Each switch was broken in the same way.

Welsh got in some new switches and one was waiting for me when I got home yesterday. Still has the yellow grease though.

 

[Michael J.]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

Where the L-shaped piece breaks is right where the two spring loaded pins rest with the switch in the normal position

 

[Exotexs]

Re: 87 XJ6 Turn Signal/Hazard Flasher Switch Probl

I think they all come with that type of grease. as long as it works now! I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol and used dielectric grease from Permatex. if the nylon piece keeps breaking you can try to manufacture another from a stiffer plastic material.