valves clicking...i think - need advice

[wifegonnakillme]

I've only done short trips with my tr3 thus far, but this morning i had her out running for a good two hours...then i started hearing some clicking coming from the top of the engine...I think its the valves but I have to qualify that by saying that i am no mechanic. Anyway i got home and stuck my head in the bay and it sounds like it is coming from above the head...oil is fine and i've been running 91 octane through the last maybe 300 miles since it came out of mothballs this spring.
so what do you guys think? valves? if so, is there something a novice can do to fix or should i leave it to professionals - i am taking it in on Wednesday anyway to have the carbs rebuilt - i could potentially add it to the list, but i would at some point like to build up my own skills...advice would be apprciated,

thanks,
Kerry
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF

 

[tdskip]

Hi Kerry!

Is she otherwise acting up? Is she running any differently than before?

As a general rule you want to have everything else 'right' before you tune the carbs once they are back from being rebuilt. That includes making sure the ignition system is healthy and the valves are adjusted.

Do you have a good manual for your car?

 

[wifegonnakillme]

The car was running fine - although the mechanic who did the initial work said i should have the cards rebuilt - float was sticking and they hadn't appeared to have been touched in over a decade - that's why it was going to go in on Wednesday - this valve noise is a brand new one - I've never adjusted or even taken off a valve cover - i guess i was just looking for advice as to whether or not this is the likely source of the sound, and if so, should i try to fix myself...and no, i do not have a good manual...
thanks,
Kerry

 

[tdskip]

How loud? Oil level and pressure OK? Temperature gauge shoot to the hot range?

After you let her sit, have you started her and is she still doing it? (Make sure her oil level and pressure before you run her for any period first)

You will want to track down a good manual, in fact track down at least two. Moss Motors (www.mossmotors.com) will carry them and have <b>very</b> helpful diagrams. Having two helps becuase each one covering this differently. Both Hayes and Bentley will cover valve adjustment procedures.

Even if you decide not to do the work yourself, it is good to have the manuals so you know what work is being done.

It isn't hard to go, but being familiar with the car and getting some more advice from this forum's more sage members would be a good idea.

I hope this helps!

 

[wifegonnakillme]

[ QUOTE ]
How loud? Oil level and pressure OK? Temperature gauge shoot to the hot range?

After you let her sit, have you started her and is she still doing it? (Make sure her oil level and pressure before you run her for any period first)


[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty loud - you can easily hear it outside the car - not as bad as when i blew a hole in the top of a cylinder in my old honda...temperature gauge rises normally (although its been scoped as reading 50 degrees too high so its hard to tell if the top temperature has risen because of this problem) - oil level at half, pressure on start up is 60 and 40-45 when hot (unchanged since before) - yes still does it on a cold start - if anything its louder...

and i was so hoping to get through the first summer without anything major,

thanks,
Kerry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF

 

[Bugeye58]

Sounds like a simple valve adjustment is in order.
Jeff

 

[SkinnedKnuckles]

I had an old TR mechanic tell me a stock engine should sound like a sewing machine - he preferred the valves to be be a bit on the loose side so there was no float at high rpm's. That gives a pretty noisy system.

 

[Harry_Ward]

Kerry,

Tappets, pushrods, rockers will make quite a bit of noise under normal operating conditions (hence the sewing machine description) but loud clicking and tapping may be caused by a lot of different things. It could be as simple as just some carbon fluff built up on the valves which may blow through, or a minor pushrod to rocker adjustment, more serious worn tappets, worn cam lobe(s), or bent pushrod(s)...valve pushrod/rocker adjustment pretty straight forward with proper manual. Either way you should or have someone check the valve clearances before more damage is incurred by driving it. I would recommend a Bently manual if you can find one. If you want to perform the work yourself I would recommend reading the valve adjustment section and then ask lots of questions here.
Oil pressure sounds OK a little lower than mine on start up but OK. Hard to tell what temp you are running if the gauge is 50 off.

Harry
CT

 

[Alan_Myers]

Hi,

Lots of good suggestions so far.

First of all, TR 4-cylinder valve train is a bit noisy. There is bound to be some valve clatter. If not, the adjustment is too tight.

However, since you've owned the car for a while, perhaps it's getting noisier. Most likely thing is it just needs adjustment.

Also, the oil you are using might have an effect. Should be 20W50, especially in the hot summer months. Synthetic oil also might make for a bit more noise than mineral-based oil.

Valve guide wear is another possiblity. This will occur a little more rapidly in the original type of guides, as a result of using unleaded fuel. Modern replacement valve guides are of a material that's more resistant to that wear (self-lubricating), but also need to be reamed slightly oversize to compensate for higher heat exapansion rate. This makes for slightly noisier valves at startup, but they will get quieter as the car warms up.

Switching to a hotter profile cam also usually requires running valve adjustment looser, and noisier.

Wear in the valve rocker shaft will gradually increase noise, too. Also, oiling in this area might get reduced if anything gets in there and blocks the passageways.

It's very hard to diagnose worn rocker bushings and rocker shaft without diasassmbly.

As already mentioned, wear and tear to the cam and cam followers can rapidly change valve clearance adjustment. This sort of rapid change would indicate oiling problems and can mean an engine rebuild!

I noted that you said you had been driving for two hours when you thought the valves started getting noisier. That would indicate to me that it's less likely engine wear problems, more likely oil is losing its viscosity. However that can lead to more rapid engine wear. What, exactly, were the driving conditions when you noticed the increased clatter? Did you change the oil immediately when the car was brought out of storage (oil looses it's lubricating ability over time, too, not just mileage)?

High ambient temperatures, running steadily at highway speeds, pulling hard going up hills, oil getting old and needing to be changed all might contribute to this.

Do you have an oil cooler installed? How is engine cooling overall, using the stock setup, or an electric fan? Does the temp gauge show any overheating?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[wifegonnakillme]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gifOK, remember how i mentioned i was a bit of a novice at this?...well, and it is with some embarrassment i tell this - i had arranged to take the car in to have the carbs done anyway, so i dropped by with the car to talk to the guys who have done most of my work (autobody, but each are certified mechanics) - anyway, my thought was i would ask them if i could hang around while they did the valve work and i could learn something - well, i learned something quickly - athough i had the general location correct, the source of the noise was actually the pully and water pump - the whole assembly had come loose and was rattling - new pump and pully is in the mail - ugh - just for good measure, am changing out the oil and filter as well...
never-the-less i really appreciate the advice offered here - thanks for all the details and the time you guys took - hopefully it will help someone with a real valve problem,
kerry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF

 

[tdskip]

Hey - as long as you figured it out it is all good! Could have been a lot worse.

Let us know when she is back on the road - and send pictures!

 

[prb51]

Check the new water pump/pulley when it arrives. I recv'd one that had pulley/pump body interference (scraping)right off the shelf. This small rub will eventually develop into the major problem you encountered. You can return the item or remove the pulley and grind the offending area a bit for clearence.