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TR2/3/3A Starting my Bodywork journey.

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Heck Dave are lives and cars are seem to be going in the same direction. I have been battling my front fenders ever since John should me some diverse ways of doing things; he changed my perception and ruined my life by showing me these fenders come apart into sections that can be reworked.


I am back to using a fender that I was not going to use because the rot had gotten into backside by the bolt holes, but it is a matching fender to the front apron and seems to fit better. Perhaps these hand made cars were tweaked at the factory. I could have bought Moss patches, but didn’t.

Anyways, your car looks very solid, so she will be a nice one. I am struggling with that same spot were the patch meets the outer sill and the fender has that fold that sits into the grove. I made my patch out of too heavy of steel and cannot get the fold tight enough to sit tight.

If I am hearing you correct with bonnet to wing alignment problems, remember there is a large gap between the two for the chrome beading and the hood opening. Plus your door looks good. I think the factory opening were not very close.

I see now why John used some old sheet metal for his patches. The metal is friendlier and matches better and welds better.

I meet this guy who actually still gas welds sometimes and says he rip the old metal into strips and uses that for the rod. It sounds out there, but this does good work.
steve
 
Hello Steve
John's workmanship has raised my target. Will never reach his level of perfection but it is a great goal to strive for.

My bondo work is a bit like my sheet rock work. Put on too much mud, sand off too much and repeat. The passenger side wing and door are getting close. That is why I put the bonnet on the car. Wanted to check the wing/front apron fit.

I was lucky to get a basically sound car but the PO had done some work that had to be redone. Some of it caused me some headaches like the drivers side door gap being 3/8" too small for the door. It fits now. Some minor tweaking may be needed Tush style with steel rod to get the gap right. The passengers door went well.


David
 
Hey David...been waiting for an update!

I can't tell from the picture if your bonnet has the straight edge at the rear, like mine does...or the later style rear edge that has about 1/4" folded over. The later folded edge is friendlier to work, as it gives some stiffness to the rear of the bonnet, so you can work it to match the scuttle. If you have the earlier straight edge, then that is truly a bear to get right. There is nothing to hold the edge, so you have to keep tweaking it until it is both straight and lines up. Like Steve said...the later bonnet is only held to the brace at the outer edges. The earlier, straight edged bonnet, has 2 rivets, that actually show on top of the bonnet.

If you think about how the bonnet is held on, by the 2 hinges, you can picture how to lower the middle. If you push the middle downward, it will lower the middle and cause the sides to bow outward. The rear brace is pretty strong, so I put the bonnet on the garage floor and bounced on it to get it in the ballpark. Once you have the middle curvature right, then you move to the area outboard of the hinges to get that in alignment.

Mine was so mess up that I had to relocate the rear brace to pull in the "extra" metal along the rear edge, but that was an extreme case where I was piecing together 2 bonnets to make a good one. The bonnet is probably the next hardest panel to align after the doors...so you just have to plan to spend a good bit of time with it. I also removed those rivets so I could move the metal around easier, and then re-installed them at the end.

Glad to see you're making progress, despite life getting in the way!
 
Hello John

Thank you.

It is the later type with the folded over edge. So I can do a bit of careful adjustment. I should add the material between the skin and brace?
I fitted the hinges yesterday and put it on the car to see how things looked. Working my way round from the passenger side and did not want to get too far off line.

Will probable return to the drivers side wing and door gap on next. Then do the front apron. Keeping the bonnet on to keep an eye on the alignment of all the parts.

David
 
The horse hair does help steady the skin on the brace. That said, with my last TR3 I left the padding out, because I couldn't find anything I liked to replace it. 5 years later I sold the car...never did replace the pad, but never thought about it until now!?! It never caused a problem. The horse hair seems to shed water. The closest replacement would be felt, but I worry that felt will retain water against the metal. Maybe if we could find the "faux" horse hair that comes with the seat stuffing kits??
 
It has been a while since I posted to this thread. That does not mean I have not been working on the car just it did not seem like I had much worth posting. Been working out of town a lot which always seems to break up the work flow.

Have finally got the drivers side wing looking OK and primed. In Georgia you have to prime or get use to sanding rust off again. The front clip is looking OK as well.
Getting ready to lift the body off the frame so I can finish the underside and maybe get it sand blasted and painted.

My trim package arrived several weeks ago and I got the seat springs primed and have started work on them. Taking the Multi Prong approach to the project.

The car came with 2 trunk lids. One brand new with UK stickers. Probable purchased in 1999 or 2000. The other had been damaged and repaired passably by the PO or PPO .
When I trial fitted the new one to the car I found there is some misalignment. Have not set the other one on the car yet to see how that fits. My question is if I were to go with the new one should I re contour the rear panel or just live with it. I do not think the lid could be fixed by someone of my abilities.

David

Trunk Lid fit.jpg
 
Hi David,

Just a quick note. When test fitting the trunk lids, make sure you have the inner structure bolted in. It can change the shape of the lid slightly IMO.

Cheers
Tush
 
That should not be too hard to tackle...or at least to get close enough that a small amount of filler will blend the 2 panels. I've been sitting here trying to think of the best way to put it into words.

As I see it, the outboard edge is good...and of course the hinge level is good too. The mis-match appears to start just outboard of the hinge and gradually increase it's mis-match until it reaches a maximum at the bottom of the "trough". It then comes back into alignment at the outboard edge. So, here is how I would go about it...

First, use a large screw driver or paint mixing stick to wedge into the outboard edge. This edge is in alignment, so we want to hold it there. The hinge will hold the inner side in alignment.

Next, you don't need to work a small area, but instead want to gently bend the trough lower. This means you want a contoured hammer that is rather large, so it will not impose small dents in the trough as you work it. Here is a dolly I have that would be just about perfect for the job. Yes, I would use the dolly AS a hammer in this case:

c5xvUKe.jpg


If you hold the dolly at the same angle as the trough, and tap it downward WHILE having the outer edge restrained, the trough will bend downward. Of course you will have to work from the front edge of the lid backward to contour the panel as far back as needed. If you think about it, you will be hammering closer to the outer edge than the hinge. Therefore the most bending will happen closer to the edge than the hinge...and that is what you want to happen.

You will also be violating the general rule of bodywork to always have a backing dolly...but in this case you are trying to gently work, or bend, a relatively large area, so we can get away with breaking the rule.

When you get close to aligned, you may have to work a little with a curved hammer like this one:

TB44Wtl.jpg


But that assumes the curve of the hammer matches the curve of the lid, and once you start with a smaller headed hammer, it would be best to start using a dolly under it.

One last note. If you think about it, as you increase the curve in the trough of the lid, the forward edge has a lip...easily seen in your picture. This forward lip is normally bent to angle a little to the rear, instead of straight 90 degrees downward. If you think about it, as the curve increases, this lip must mildly increase it's angle to the rear. In fact, if you tap it to the rear before you begin tapping the trough lower, then the extra angle will automatically increase the curvature you are looking for. Another way to speed the bending may be to use a technique like this:

v2uNf7Z.jpg


In this pic I am straightening an edge lip with a reverse bend. You would be using the same method to increase the amount of reverse bend at the bottom of the trough.

This is all hard to explain so you can visualize what I am talking about. I wish my Triumph was close so I could take a picture worth a thousand words!?!
 
Hello Tush and John

I do have the bracing fitted bit it is a rather tight fit. The spacing between the holes in the bracing is not correct. I had mainly fitted the boot lid to check the alignment of the rear wings/boot inner faces. That was when I noticed the front edge problem.

Thank you John for the comments and hints. When I get home I will take a long look at that area and get back to you for more hints. How will the inner structure affect the hammering/tapping.

The old boot lid may be a better option. Had not considered it till yesterday when I got it out and took a look.
I will probable put the one I do not use on e bay or offer it on the forum.

David
 
DavidApp said:
How will the inner structure affect the hammering/tapping.

David
Click to expand...

If you were fixing dents, then the inner structure would be in the way. For the type of tapping I am suggesting you are trying to contour by bending, rather than removing dents...so it would be best to have the inner structure in place.
 
CJD said:
The horse hair does help steady the skin on the brace. That said, with my last TR3 I left the padding out, because I couldn't find anything I liked to replace it. 5 years later I sold the car...never did replace the pad, but never thought about it until now!?! It never caused a problem. The horse hair seems to shed water. The closest replacement would be felt, but I worry that felt will retain water against the metal. Maybe if we could find the "faux" horse hair that comes with the seat stuffing kits??
Click to expand...

How about polypropylene rope of some sort? Could de-weave a black rope and relax it with heat. Poly sheds water flawlessly.
 
I thought the only time I would debate John would be in a poker game, but I would remove the brace and the metal will probably bend with your fingers. I tried getting a dent out of the area under the trunk hinge with the brace in, and it killed me. I did get it out with the brace in well, most of it, but again I wish I would have removed the brace piece because on another trunk lid I did, and the metal was scary flimsy. Plus I am still alive.
steve
 
For clarity, I understand that John was talking about moving metal and removing dents as 2 different types of bodywork. This came to me last night when I was trying to fall asleep. One of those epiphany deals. Plus those braces tack some work getting out.
steve
 
I am out of town this week and next but when I get home I shall have a good look at the old boot lid. As the other one is brand new with the stickers on it still I would prefer to not have to molest it unless the old lid is too bad to use. My sheet metal skills are still being honed so I am a little reluctant to take on something that would be so visible. Also as I formed the metal down would the edge tend to move in and away from the wing?
It had been repaired at some time and appears to be sound just a little bondo on the passenger side rear edge.

David
 
DavidApp said:
Also as I formed the metal down would the edge tend to move in and away from the wing?
It had been repaired at some time and appears to be sound just a little bondo on the passenger side rear edge.

David
Click to expand...

Yes it will...you're beginning to visualize how it works! It should only be a small amount, however, that can be blended along the edge from front to back. The wing mounting lip can also be moved over to compensate for the added gap. Remember the rear wings mount with those mushroom topped screws back there, so you may actually need a bit more gap to the lid to clear those screw heads. The beading then reduces the gap a bit once it is installed.

The boot lid is one of those matching jobs that can't be rushed. You are aligning to 4 different panels, so plan to use up the best part of a couple days until you are satisfied with the fit. Even then, in the end you end up deciding the best compromises you can get.
 
When I was 15 we went to Flint Michigan and visited the Mustang plant. It was very impressive in an age when raw steel and plastic entered an American plant at one end and the finished cars rolled out the other. No outsourcing at all back then. Anyway, the final operation before the bare bodies were dipped in primer to begin painting, was a dude with a huge rubber mallet that walked around the car whacking the doors and other panels into alignment!!

Modern cars are built to much higher standards than the 1960’s...but that is the generation we are working with. Stampings were not nearly as accurate as they are today. On the one hand, getting a perfect body on these cars is actually finishing them to a much higher standard than they were originally. On the other, when you go to all this trouble, why not make them a little better?
 
Fitted the original boot lid and found it fits well. Needs some work but the edge profile is much closer than the new one. Also found why the cross brace did not fit the new one well. The lower edge location points for the brace are about 1/2" too far apart.
I will dig out the old bondo and see what I can do to help the dents.

David
 
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