Spitfire Spitfire Seats - Foam Repair ?

[dklawson]

This regards my project '72 Spit.

I know that new seat foams are available but this is a budget rolling restoration. I found that some of the foam in the seats is/are falling apart... particularly on the seat backs. I was planning on buying upholstery foam from a local source, using spray contact adhesive and applying this foam over whats left of the Triumph foam, and securing it all with plastic film (under the vinyl covers) to keep rubber crumbs from falling out.

Have any of you taken the seats completely apart and can you offer suggestions and/or steps to follow when removing and refitting the hog rings that secure the vinyl? I'm sure I can figure this out but I would like pointers from anyone who's dealt with this before. Thanks in advance.

 

[billspit]

I've never seen a Spitfire with good seats. Or at least owned one. I have heard about a couple of local upholstery shops that will redo the seats pretty economically. I've not been there or gotten prices yet. But they did a club members MkI Spitfire seats for $300 for the pair, new foam and recovering. They looked excellent too.

 

[IanF]

Robyn re-did the seats in Baldrick, but with all new foam. I feel your pain as the foam in my Spit 6 seats is completely shot... after driving it all weekend, my back is sore...

Anyway, I'm not sure hog rings can be reused. From all of the upholstry books I have, you remove them with diagonal cutters and new ones are installed with hog-ring pliers. Robyn borrowed the pliers from a coworker and bought a 100 pk of hog rings.

What are you eventual plans for the car? She purchased a complete kit (new foam and covers) from Spit Bits and I don't recall it being horribly expensive...

One of the problems I can imagine with trying to recreate the foam from scratch is knowing what the contours are when the OE foam has crumbled to nothing... and unless you get it perfect, the covers won't fit very well. Likewise, I doubt attempting to glue new foam to a crumbling substrate will hold up to the stress of installing the covers.

 

[guzzul]

I would agree with Ian's comments. It's pretty difficult to 'patch' the seat foams and/or layer foam on top of old crumbly foam in order to build it up. Not impossible, for sure, but challenging to make it look right. You're better off IMHO to either buy or make a complete new piece of foam.

If you buy some new foams you will see that they're pieced together, and each individual piece is pretty simple. Its a paradox, but if I had a new set of foams as a pattern I could have probably built myself a set out of stock foam material.

If you do decide to cut and shape your own foams, try using one of those electric carving knives to do it. You need the sawing action to properly shape the foam blocks. Professionals use a big long-bladed nasty-looking version of these.

I would recommend you download Phillip Colwart's file on redoing Spit seats, it was very helpful when I did mine. There are a lot of TR re-upholstery tutorials on line, but I did not find that many for Spitfires. The link is:
https://www.bigolbear.com/images/ Look down the list for his Spitfire Seats Powerpoint file.

As for hog rings, I would recommend two things. First, take some photos and notes of how the vinyl is currently attached. In particular, have a look at which seat frame members are used to wrap the vinyl around, or do one seat frame at a time so that you have a reference to go back to on reassembly.

To get rid of the old hog rings, just cut them off with wire cutters (I used aircraft-type metal snips with a pointy-nose). To put them back, my main recommendation is some good, bent-nose hog ring pliers. Link below is from Eastwood, but there are others of course. There are lots of real cheapy ring pliers around, but they are a pain in the butt to work with and bent-nose will get into all the nooks and crannies when you reassemble. Beg, borrow or buy a decent pair.

https://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=21596&itemType=PRODUCT

This is not rocket science, but like most things takes some patience. Good luck.

 

[dklawson]

This car is a learning tool for my sons who have not tinkered with cars before. I expect it to serve for a few years and experience a number of "accidents" as most first cars do. As such, I want to make it safe, reliable and relatively comfortable. However, I except the possibility of it meeting an early demise since it will be driven by a learning driver. That is pushing me to find a less expensive way to improve the seats.

Years ago I sent the GT6 seats to a respected Triumph guy to be completely rebuilt (promised new foams, new diaphragms, new vinyl). They came back with new vinyl but had burlap support webs instead of diaphragms, broken rubber webs on the seat back, only partially assembled, and they were missing hardware. I'm not going through that again. This experience is another incentive driving for my search for a DIY solution.

I'm not planning on completely replacing the existing foam. My intention at this point is to carefully remove the vinyl, bond on a fresh layer of new foam (over the remains still there) cover with batting and finally refit the covers. It won't last forever as you can't bond good to bad and expect success, but as I mentioned... I anticipate this car will experience a few mishaps so I'd like to spend my money on making it safe and reliable.

If any of you have advice on how to remove and refit the vinyl w/o damage I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks for the comments and suggestions so far. They are all appreciated.

 

[vagt6]

All you need to know right here:

https://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spit6project/whitey/seats/index.html

I did essentially the same process for a GT6, worked very well.

 

[dklawson]

Thanks Mark ! I'll save those pages for reference. Just what I needed !

 

[foxtrapper]

Hog rings are easy to deal with. You can get a hog ring tool and a bag of rings from any upholstery store. They're a pain to work with without the proper tool. You can reuse the rings, but it's a pain as well trying to uncurl them without snapping them, and trying to get them to recurl correctly. Just not worthwhile.

The foam that fails in the seat is the side bolster, it's made from cumb foam, all glued together. The glue fails, and the crumbs all fall out. I have no idea why Triumph chose to use that type of foam.

I've seen foam kits with this replaced with single piece foam. You can do that as well yourself. One block of foam, an electric carving knife, and cut away. Cutting foam is easy, cutting foam accurately is not as easy.

 

[dklawson]

Thanks for the additional information. I know I have at least two sets of ring pliers I just need to order a bag of the rings. My plan is to leave as much of the existing, crumbling foam in place as possible and glue new, thin foam over it followed by a layer of "plastic wrap" to secure the bits that may (will) want to find their way out.

Mark, since you've done this before, can you comment on the statement on the Teglerizer web site about having the seat cover instructions to know what to do with the flap on the covers? If you fit new covers to the GT6 seats, did you save a copy of the instructions that you could fax or scan and email to me?

 

[foxtrapper]

My plan is to leave as much of the existing, crumbling foam in place as possible and glue new, thin foam over it followed by a layer of "plastic wrap" to secure the bits that may (will) want to find their way out.

Wouldn't recommend that, as a member of the BTDT club. At best, you get a bag filled with crumbs that lay at the bottom. The bolsters will be gone, and the seat fabric will be slack and hanging there, with the baggie bulge at the bottom, or hanging out.

More typically, the baggie rips, and the crumbs all fall out, just like they are doing now.

 

[vagt6]

Thanks for the additional information. I know I have at least two sets of ring pliers I just need to order a bag of the rings. My plan is to leave as much of the existing, crumbling foam in place as possible and glue new, thin foam over it followed by a layer of "plastic wrap" to secure the bits that may (will) want to find their way out.

Mark, since you've done this before, can you comment on the statement on the Teglerizer web site about having the seat cover instructions to know what to do with the flap on the covers? If you fit new covers to the GT6 seats, did you save a copy of the instructions that you could fax or scan and email to me?

Ditto on Foxtrapper's comment, above, Doug. Replace it all or you'll end up with a mess in no time flat.

Alas, I didn't save the instructions, and I don't remember anything about a "flap". You do have to glue the edges down, though. It's been about three years since I did this, and I had another guy helping.

Sorry, Doug.

You may even try eMailing Paul Tegler, or contact the seat cover manufacturer?

Please let us know, these little tricks of the trade can save a lot of grief in the long term.

 

[TR3driver]

Just to ditto the above; once the foam starts to crumble it will all follow in short order. As an experiment some years ago, I tried putting some in a sealed Baggie; but it still fell apart. Apparently once the ozone (or whatever it is) starts the decomposition process, nothing can stop it.

 

[tdskip]

Just to ditto the above; once the foam starts to crumble it will all follow in short order. As an experiment some years ago, I tried putting some in a sealed Baggie; but it still fell apart. Apparently once the ozone (or whatever it is) starts the decomposition process, nothing can stop it.

I agree - this has been my experience as well.

 

[dklawson]

Drat and double drat. Thanks all.

 

[foxtrapper]

Drat and double drat. Thanks all.

Whoa now! You were willing to disassemble the seats and build up the side bolsters. If you're comfortable with that, then simply replacing the disintegrating side bolsters should be no big deal to you. It ain't rocket science, they don't have to be perfectly shaped to work well. I suspect you're quite up to the task.

 

[dklawson]

Oh... I know it's not rocket science. What it is... is money. If I buy the correct foams they will cost $200/seat plus shipping. It's all too easy to say "It's just $200", but it's both seats which means "It's just $400". I've never cut my own seat foam but I will probably price it locally and see if I can get out for less than $100/seat.

You know how it goes, you buy a project car thinking that it only needs a few things to be roadworthy. Before you know it you're into a full blow, wallet emptying restoration. That's what I see unfolding before me.

I must also share with you that this is not a project I'm working on by myself, this is a project car where I want my sons involved so they can learn some basics. Repairing seats isn't something they need to learn to do but it does take time away from other areas I want them to learn to work on.

Again, thanks all.

 

[vagt6]

No doubt, Doug, it can be a wee bit frustrating at times!

My suggestion on the seat foams: forgetaboutit.

Put some kind of seat cushion over the seat to make it comfy. Maybe a nice, folded towel that's the same color as your interior, for example (I've done this more than once!)and just delay the seat foam replacement until you're darn good and ready to pay for it.

It's all too easy to let the car suck us into these little, money-grabbing projects that REALLY don't need to be done immediately. Don't let the car suck you in!

Your seat foam conumdrum fits right into this category. So, ignore it and drive the car!! In the fullness of time, you'll fix it, but on YOUR terms, not the car's!

 

[dklawson]

Good point Mark. I think I'll take your advice. My immediate seat related tasks will return to fixing the broken recliner mechanism on the passenger side and getting what's left of the broken 1/4-28 bolt out of the driver's floor!

 

[tom628]

Doug: I went to a local furniture warehouse, which also happened to sell parts like foam and upholtery for DIY furniture repair.
I only had to do the driver's seat bottom but the furniture guy was very helpful in helping me select the right density foams. Then I took out the old foam pieces and sketched out the shapes on the new foam and cut with an electric carving knife.Glued the several pieces together and put the old cover back on.
Feels great now, and I think the foam only cost about $15 or so. I did buy a new seat diaphragm, which also helped.

Tom

 

[foxtrapper]

I dunno, I'd be quite willing to spend some time with my son repairing a seat. All part of making the car nice. No, it doesn't have to be done or done now. But it certainly can be part of the project.