Moss EFI kit & other good news!

[Bret]

Hey guys,

The good news! Is that after a long wait – it looks as if the Moss EFI kit to replace the Zenith Stromberg carburetor on 75-80 MGBs, is about to become a reality after all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The bad news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif is that it is almost ready – meaning that we’re going to have to wait a little longer.


Also of note is a “new” Moss designed performance exhaust. According to the R&D update – the new exhaust was designed to compliment the Moss Supercharger. But they say it would also benefit normally aspirated MGBs too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

The Exhaust is kind of ugly looking actually & reminds me of something Caractacus Potts would have made in his barn to slap on “Chitty Chitty Bang Bang”. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

Speaking of Superchargers. Moss now has a Supercharger for all of you Spridgets fans. According to the report it should deliver about 4-5 psi of boost! That annoying kid sitting next to you at a stop light with the ear splitting coffee can exhaust, will never know what hit him. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

These announcements can be found in the upcoming Spring 05 issue of British Motoring. For more news you can wait for the issue to get to your mail box. Or you can do like I did & go to the Moss Motors web site Moss Motors and down load a soft copy of the latest issue for more information.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[John Moore]

Looks interesting, I wonder how much the FI will cost? And your right, that header looks like a crazy cob job!

 

[Radford]

Header is possibly in test stage, finished product may look a lot more "professional". Neat that they give us a peak at what's coming.

 

[PC]

I quite like the look of the exhaust header. Looks the way you'd expect a high-performance equal-length tri-Y (um, in this case bi-Y) tubular manifold to look.


PC.

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks interesting, I wonder how much the FI will cost? And your right, that header looks like a crazy cob job!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. Here is what I know.

Back when Moss originally introduced the MGB EFI kit under development in British Motoring (Winter 03/04) they said the target price was around $1400 retail.

Heres a link to the origenal story in British Motoring Winter 03/04 EFI

Looking at the overall design it seems pretty simple in that there are three basic components: The throttle body, the ECU and a wiring harness. No Oxygen sensor wide band or otherwise to complicate things or ratchet up the price tag!

So considering that they designed the whole setup to stand alone without an oxygen sensor, I suspect that even if the cost goes up much more it will be a lot cheaper in the long run than most DYI setups I’ve seen to date. Besides the added expense (time & $$) of adapting another more complicated setup to our application, another advantage the new kit comes with a CARB certification number already. No small deal for those of us in states with strict emissions tests – where there’d be the added cost of taking your vehicle in to an emissions referee for approval before we could legally register it.

All of that and if the Moss EFI kit is truly a “no-brainer” installation as they claim it is – then the cost seems reasonable to me.

My only wish is that they don’t make it a “black box” ECU. So we could hook up a laptop or something, to fiddle with the mapping to better optimize overall performance, fuel economy & drivability.

 

[Nunyas]

34mm bore... roughly 1 1/3 inch bore on the throttle body. I wonder how the system compares to a dual SU setup. I would imagine it'll be better than a ZS, but maybe not as good as dual SUs? Maybe a little better than a Weber dgv 32/36? Just speculating, since they don't hint at what kind of performance improvements can be expected outside of "improved reliability".

The headers are interesting. Although, I think I'd be more interested if they had a matching intake manifold with fittings for a stock EGR valve and CARB certification...

Another thought popped into my head. What kind of preasure are they running in the fuel lines to the TBI unit? Is it to use stock fuel pumps? If so, i can't imagine the atomization of the fuel entering the air flow being much better than a carb. Then again it looks like it'll have better air flow characteristics overall due to the smoother passage with less obstructions...

I certianly would like to know a lot more about the FI system than they've published so far, and a CARB certified intake manifold and header for late model B's would be really cool too.

 

[John Moore]

Very interesting. Brett, I'm sure you've already contacted Moss to volunteer to be their first guinea pig, right?

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting. Brett, I'm sure you've already contacted Moss to volunteer to be their first guinea pig, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah me and about a couple hundred other guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
34mm bore... roughly 1 1/3 inch bore on the throttle body. I wonder how the system compares to a dual SU setup. I would imagine it'll be better than a ZS, but maybe not as good as dual SUs? Maybe a little better than a Weber dgv 32/36? Just speculating, since they don't hint at what kind of performance improvements can be expected outside of "improved reliability".


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually if you read the original article in British Motoring back in the Winter 03/04 issue, while they say that it wasn’t one of there objectives – the engineers working on the EFI kit said they picked up a few extra ponies in the process. But no numbers where given. So on it’s own I wouldn’t expect to see a huge difference in performance just bolting it in place of the old Zenith Stromberg. However it seems logical to assume that with the right modifications to the engine’s internals via a 270 cam, upgraded valve train to allow for higher revving.

The limiting factor at this point would be the single ZS manifold. I have talked to a couple of folks about modifications I have planed. Besides adding a bung at the bottom of the manifold for Wide band O2 sensor – to be ran separately from EFI kit for tuning. I also plan on magnifluxing the head and then I plan on cleaning & smoothing out the inside of the manifold for better flow. Similar to what you might expect from porting & polishing a head. Another option is to make a manifold from scratch but that would be cost prohibitive at this point but perhaps a consideration at some point in the future.

Anyway I’m not 100% sure what kind of gains I can expect but I figure its worth a shot.

[ QUOTE ]

The headers are interesting. Although, I think I'd be more interested if they had a matching intake manifold with fittings for a stock EGR valve and CARB certification...


[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed see my comments above.

As for the fuel pump question? Remember the Moss kit is a basic stand alone throttle body EFI and as such it doesn’t incorporate a fuel return line. This is probably the reason why we don’t see a lot of emphasis by Moss on the kit’s prospective performance. But for my application if I wish to avoid fuel starvation issues at the higher revs I will probably have to consider an up-rated fuel pump & regulator. Who knows I might even have to look into a fuel return line back to the tank.

 

[danmas]

Wouldn't it be nice if Moss developed a really good DIY V8 conversion kit?

 

[Nunyas]

I've seen pictures of a late model B that has a custom intake manifold and still uses the ZS carb (First 2 pics). However, I can't tell if the owner still has an EGR installed. There doesn't appear to be one in the pic, but that doesn't mean that they didn't use one at all.

The design of the intake manifold looks simple enough. I've been thinking about having a local muffler shop that does custom pipe work build one for me with the appropriate EGR fittings, and modifying a set of headers to accept an EGR. Emissions wise I suppose we're pretty lucky that the only emissions fittings on our exhaust manifolds is the EGR valve. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
Emissions wise I suppose we're pretty lucky that the only emissions fittings on our exhaust manifolds is the EGR valve. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I’ve seen those pictures before and that is kind of the design I was thinking about. Besides the EGR another hang-up could be the positioning of the Catalytic Converter. I was thinking of a common y-pipe with the cat at the bottom angled back.

Interestingly enough the last emission test I had the technician marked the EGR as not required.

 

[Nunyas]

eh, the catalytic converter isn't so much of a problem if you don't mind using after market parts. I have one of those "free flowing" "high performance" catalytic converts on my B. The muffler shop installed it under the driver's feet. If i ever get around to installing a set of headers, all that would be needed is for a flange to be added to the pipe so the rest of the exhaust can be bolted right up, OEM style. So far, my cat's position hasn't bee a problem heat wise.

 

[Bret]

[ QUOTE ]
eh, the catalytic converter isn't so much of a problem if you don't mind using after market parts. I have one of those "free flowing" "high performance" catalytic converts on my B. The muffler shop installed it under the driver's feet. If i ever get around to installing a set of headers, all that would be needed is for a flange to be added to the pipe so the rest of the exhaust can be bolted right up, OEM style. So far, my cat's position hasn't bee a problem heat wise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm? Have you had an emissions test since relocating the cat under your car?

I only ask because I’ve always been told that the cat needs to be as close to the exhaust as possible for it to work properly. Another problem with relocating the cat under the car, is that you need to be careful where you park. Like say you probably don’t want to park on dry grass. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

This certainly be an area of concern for those like me, who’ve lowered their rides. As it is now I have to be careful because I already drag my front muffler on some speed bumps sometimes.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[Nunyas]

yeah, I had this cat installed specifically so i could pass smog, which i've done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. the previous cat was in the same location but it was burned out and bits of it were in the muffler when i got the car... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif