Concours

[LAW75]

Hello there. I have been fortunate enough to be invited to exhibit my '66 AH 3000 BJ8 at the Hilton Head Concours d'Elegance in November and wondering if you have suggestions on what to bring with me, besides chairs and other "comfort" items. Tools? Cleaners/ etc, etc. Thanks

 

[Editor_Reid]

I met the chief judge for Hilton Head last weekend, Gerald Greenfield. He was here in Portland and was assigned as my assistant in judging class Q-1 in the Forest Grove Concours. Very nice guy. I asked him if he needed any more judges for Hilton Head and he said he'd work me in (could be as a clipboard holder...).

Anyway, I'd bring your preferred brand of Speed Shine/Quick Detailer and couple of appropriate micro-fiber cloths. A battery-operated vacuum can come in handy for the carpets, or maybe just a good lint brush for that final carpet grooming. Wide masking tape, wrapped around your palm, sticky side out, also makes a good, quick carpet cleaner. Beyond that there shouldn't be any cleaning/detailing needs that you didn't take care of before you left home.

For documentation, a BMIHT certificate is a nice touch, although most concours judges won't know what it is, but introduce it as the car's "birth certificate" from the British Motor Museum and it lends a certain air that you have a deep appreciation for your car; i.e., you cared enough to obtain the certificate (and if you don't have it, there's still plenty of time to get one, and you can order them online).

A binder with restoration photos and receipts is nice to show with the car. The judges won't have time to peruse it, and some of them may not care at all, but generally it also serves as a testament to your seriousness and your appreciation of the car you're showing. It says, "I didn't buy it this way, and I've been through the mill and sweat blood getting it to this point."

Remember that little things are tie-breakers in elite concours judging, so step back and look for flaws that can be addressed (or hidden!), and of course cleanliness is paramount. Not only does it reflect on the car, but it also reflects on the owner and says that you really care and you consider the judges' work and the event important. When they introduce themselves, thank them for their work and tell them you are honored that your car was accepted for this wonderful event.

 

[LAW75]

WOW +++ Reid. Your response is priceless! I am also appointed as the "clip board scribe" for the Pocono's Enclave in Sept. I hope that volunteer position will provide great insight to what is needed for Hilton Head. I have a number of questions that, unfortunately I could not find answers to in the published Standards. Would you help me? Thanks

 

[Editor_Reid]

Remember that the inspections done by the Austin-Healey Concours Registry (AHCR) are completely different from the type of inspection you'll get at a venue such as Hilton Head. Frankly they are so different in type and character that you won't learn all that much about Hilton Head from helping with an AHCR inspection.

The AHCR inspections are excruciatingly detailed and of course they are marque- and model-specific. They attempt to be as objective as possible, although there is still a fairly large degree of judgment involved - that's why they call them "judges" and not merely "inspectors." Your final judging sheets will comprise a punch list of things you could improve to increase the car's score in the future, although my advice is, if you get Gold (950-1000 points), retire the car from Austin-Healey concours judging. You only risk the frustration and disappointment of getting a lower score at a future inspection.

An elite concours such as Hilton Head is more of a beauty contest, and after all, concours d'elegance means beauty contest. Presentation, presence, impressive color(s), and visual impact, etc. are more important than having period-correct Tenax fasteners or a Shelley jack with the right date code. Yes, there may be a judge who knows something about little British cars (LBC), but generally they are better at the details of Packards, V-12 Cadillacs and other large, glamorous and impressive cars from a bygone era of swooping fenders and miles of chrome. An LBC will never be Best of Show at such an event, final scores notwithstanding.

I'll tell you a secret. At most elite concours, there is a very subjective 3 or so points available for judges to use to award for "elegance." It's like an extra boost they can give to the car that they think should win. A Bugeye might score 100 and a big impressive Packard "only" 98, but then the 3 bonus points are used to make sure the results come out as desired, and that means the Packard wins every time.

So by all means help out with the concours at the Poconos Enclave and learn what you can, but bear in mind that the Hilton Head event is a completely different animal, and deliberately so. Don't go into it thinking you'll be disappointed if you don't win your class or at least get a nice trophy for placing high. Instead, go into it appreciating that your car was accepted and enjoy the overall experience of being part of an elite field of cars and enjoy the other cars and probably have some enjoyable conversations and enjoy something to eat and drink under the sun at one of the top events in our car culture. And drive home with a smile on your face, no matter how your car finishes!

 

[Editor_Reid]

I have a number of questions that, unfortunately I could not find answers to in the published Standards. Would you help me? Thanks

I'd be happy to help, but I'm probably not the best guy for the job. I see that you have a BJ8, and so Steve Byers, the BJ8 Registrar, would be a better resource, and beyond that I'd refer you to one or more of the active AHCR judges for BJ8s. I'm semi-retired from Austin-Healey concours and becoming more retired all the time! If you like, shoot me an email (editor@healeyclub.org) with your questions and I'll forward them to people who are probably better qualified to respond.

 

[LAW75]

I'd be happy to help, but I'm probably not the best guy for the job. I see that you have a BJ8, and so Steve Byers, the BJ8 Registrar, would be a better resource, and beyond that I'd refer you to one or more of the active AHCR judges for BJ8s. I'm semi-retired from Austin-Healey concours and becoming more retired all the time! If you like, shoot me an email (editor@healeyclub.org) with your questions and I'll forward them to people who are probably better qualified to respond.

Your advice in your last communication was very helpful to me. I probably have a severe case of OCD or something that excuses my need to know and do. Your advice is "calming me down" to reality. Thank you.

 

[gonzo]

You've been prepping this fine example of an AH 3000 BJ8 for a while, it's ready. There should be booster points for driving a car to the venue. All the best in November and enjoy your time at the premier event

 

[LAW75]

Thank you for the encouraging words, G. Worked and working hard. Still have a few screws and wires that need to be told where to go.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Thank you for the encouraging words, G. Worked and working hard. Still have a few screws and wires that need to be told where to go.

Weren’t you looking for the fuel and oil line manufacturers stickers a while back?

 

[LAW75]

Yes I was and found them with David Nocks with British Car Specialists 209-948-8767. Also, found a great source for Healey parts from Kent Lambert in Or. Lambert Restoration.

 

[Editor_Reid]

Yes I was and found them with David Nocks with British Car Specialists 209-948-8767. Also, found a great source for Healey parts from Kent Lambert in Or. Lambert Restoration.

Speaking of Kent Lambert, our jointly restored BN2 Le Mans is now for sale. It won Best of Show in its first and only car show last month.

I started to build a website for it - sorry, no photos yet - but it will give you an idea of the provenance and off-the-scale documentation of this beauty. Original RHD in Carmine Red with black interior. Seats, center armrest, and top and tonneau are originals. And oh by the way, I drove it yesterday and it is spectacular: excellent power, very smooth, tight-as-new steering, operating temp perfect, oil pressure perfect, etc., etc., etc. Anyway, take a look at the website and spread the word to anyone who might be interested. $100,000.

bn2-229182.com​

 

[LAW75]

Cant wait to see the pictures. Sounds fantastic. Kent is a lovely person and very helpful!!

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Yes I was and found them with David Nocks with British Car Specialists 209-948-8767. Also, found a great source for Healey parts from Kent Lambert in Or. Lambert Restoration.

Do they fit all the way around the hose and ends overlap?

 

[LAW75]

Yes. But installation/attachment to hose is by applying heat. Use a heat gun or a hair dryer and attach as you would shrink.

 

[LAW75]

I'd be happy to help, but I'm probably not the best guy for the job. I see that you have a BJ8, and so Steve Byers, the BJ8 Registrar, would be a better resource, and beyond that I'd refer you to one or more of the active AHCR judges for BJ8s. I'm semi-retired from Austin-Healey concours and becoming more retired all the time! If you like, shoot me an email (editor@healeyclub.org) with your questions and I'll forward them to people who are probably better qualified to respond.

Hello again, Reid... I would like to impose and take you up on your offer to help. My '66 AH 3000 BJ8 is coming along and almost ? ready for Concours. Would you please help on the following questions:
1. OK, the Enclave in the Poconos is schedule for Sept. Are there other sanctioned Concours Judging events? Where would I obtain a schedule?
2. I have observed on my and MANY other similar AH, that the bolt heads throughout the engine either have the indented circle head (which I believe is Concours proper) and also the triangle design on the head. Almost all the cars I saw first hand, have the same "mix" and location of alternative design bolts. Does Concours require all bolts the same and is it the indented circle one? (by way of example as to location...all the horn bolts and motor mounts are triangle design bolts, so is the bolt that secured the throttle stop that is screwed into the manifold, etc)
3. There is an approximate 1" x 7" strap as part of my boot cover. When the top is down and the boot in place, this strap, attached to the soft top, dangles out on the inside side of my car, behind the seat, right next to a chrome slot. My guess is the strap should be attached to some type of hook, to tighten down the front part of the boot. Is so, cant find where to get and how to install.
4. In the 2022 Concours Guidelines it states that there are no clamps on either side of the heat return pipe. But if no clamps, wont the pressure when running cause leak/separation?
5. The 2021 Guidelines say a Derrington 3 slotted 120* spoke steering wheel is an acceptable substitute for original. Perhaps I missed in the 2022 Guidelines, but is it still acceptable?

sorry for the "Book" but I would greatly appreciate your suggestions or with whom I should speak. Thank you!

 

[Editor_Reid]

Hello again, Reid... I would like to impose and take you up on your offer to help. My '66 AH 3000 BJ8 is coming along and almost ? ready for Concours. Would you please help on the following questions:
1. OK, the Enclave in the Poconos is schedule for Sept. Are there other sanctioned Concours Judging events? Where would I obtain a schedule?

The inspections at "Enclave" in the Poconos next month are the only scheduled Concours Registry judging/inspections this year. Normally there would be concours inspections at Conclave, Encounter and at the Rendezvous (formerly known as the West Coast Meet), but this year is an exception. Encounter is combined with Conclave this year, and the powers-that-be organizing the Rendezvous decided to forego concours inspections there this year. (In fact, this year's Rendezvous planned for Arcata, California, in mid-October is in imminent danger of being canceled altogether as they have only 20 registrations and need a minimum of 40 to proceed, and the event is now under two months away.)

2. I have observed on my and MANY other similar AH, that the bolt heads throughout the engine either have the indented circle head (which I believe is Concours proper) and also the triangle design on the head. Almost all the cars I saw first hand, have the same "mix" and location of alternative design bolts. Does Concours require all bolts the same and is it the indented circle one? (by way of example as to location...all the horn bolts and motor mounts are triangle design bolts, so is the bolt that secured the throttle stop that is screwed into the manifold, etc)

Curt Arndt is the "original hardware" guru - or at least one of the very best of them - and I'll forward your question to him. I'd just add that original hardware is a concern only for Concours Committee inspections. A "generic concours" - no disrespect intended - such as Hilton Head, would likely be happy with any vintage-looking hardware. They won't be examining bolt heads with jeweler's loupes like some Austin-Healey Concours Registry judges we could name! Oh, hi Curt - didn't see you standing there.

3. There is an approximate 1" x 7" strap as part of my boot cover. When the top is down and the boot in place, this strap, attached to the soft top, dangles out on the inside side of my car, behind the seat, right next to a chrome slot. My guess is the strap should be attached to some type of hook, to tighten down the front part of the boot. Is so, cant find where to get and how to install.

Not sure I follow you. My OEM BJ8 boot/top cover has straps near the forward ends. There are Tenax fasteners roughly in the middle of the straps. They attach, not surprisingly, to Tenax studs on the interior, and when you place the boot on the folded-down top it is obvious which studs they attach to. If it isn't obvious, you likely do not have the studs installed.

On the other hand, for Healey concours you will show the car with the top (hood) erected and so this won't be an issue. If you show it in another concours with the hood lowered, the judges will most likely not know about it anyway and the subject won't come up.

Or am I not following what you're asking?

4. In the 2022 Concours Guidelines it states that there are no clamps on either side of the heat return pipe. But if no clamps, wont the pressure when running cause leak/separation?

Sounds like a question for the steam-fitters. I'll roust one and see what he says and get back to you, but you're never in danger of receiving deductions if you follow the letter of the Guidelines. And hey, just turn off the heater valve on the engine and this issue will never come up.

5. The 2021 Guidelines say a Derrington 3 slotted 120* spoke steering wheel is an acceptable substitute for original. Perhaps I missed in the 2022 Guidelines, but is it still acceptable?

That steering wheel should be fine. To take the initiative I would include mention of it in the short introduction of the car to the judges that is always invited in Healey concours. "The car is also equipped with a period-correct Derrington steering wheel that I found after XX years of searching and restored to as-new condition ... as any fool can plainly see!" Don't actually say that last part.

sorry for the "Book" but I would greatly appreciate your suggestions or with whom I should speak. Thank you!

Bear in the mind the world of difference between Austin-Healey Concours Registry inspections versus generic concours judging. Think of the Concours Registry inspections as a slow-motion colonoscopy with a weed-eater, and imagine the generic inspections as a first date with a pretty girl - you might be nervous, but overall it's a pleasant experience and you'll be glad you had the opportunity!

 

[Editor_Reid]

2. I have observed on my and MANY other similar AH, that the bolt heads throughout the engine either have the indented circle head (which I believe is Concours proper) and also the triangle design on the head. Almost all the cars I saw first hand, have the same "mix" and location of alternative design bolts. Does Concours require all bolts the same and is it the indented circle one? (by way of example as to location...all the horn bolts and motor mounts are triangle design bolts, so is the bolt that secured the throttle stop that is screwed into the manifold, etc)

In the vein of, "I don't know everything, but I know people who do," herewith Curt Arndt's reply to your inquiry #2, above:

The hex bolt heads with the depressed circle are proper British bolts/screws and they denote that the fastener is the newer Unified Standard (UNF/UNC) versus the old Whitworth Standard (BSF/BSW) which was slowly phased out in the 1950s. This is why BN1/2s have half Unified fasteners and half Whitworth fasteners, i.e., engine, gearbox, and suspension..

Unified fasteners are the same as SAE fine and coarse or ANF/ANC (American National Fine/Coarse). These are the fasteners that you can find in any modern hardware store. The "triangle" on the head is just one of many markings on US-branded hardware, and while the proper size and thread pitch, and they will work, THEY ARE NOT CORRECT for [Austin-Healey Concours Registry] concours.

[Note in Austin-Healey Concours Registry inspections there is a half point deduction] ... for EVERY incorrect fastener with NO upper limit. Therefore, [if you have] 100 incorrect fasteners, you start out with a Silver award, losing 50 points [out of the theoretical perfect car with 1,000 points] right off the top.

For what it's worth, besides the depressed circle, there may be a vendor name (WILEY, WODEN, TWL, LINREAD, AUTO and about 35 more) and a letter code (B, R, S, T, V etc...) denoting the strength rating.

Curt also sent several dissertations of post-doctoral quality on the subject. They are in PDF format and guaranteed to make your eyes bleed in their level of detail. Send me your email address in a PM and I'll forward them to you, but only if you're a true glutton for this stuff.

 

[LAW75]

Reid. First thank you so very much. Your advice and that of friends Curt, were spot on! Second, it took me at least 5 straight minutes to stop laughing and then repeating your (thought provoking) colonoscopy joke to my wife and friends. With permission, that will be my new "go-to" thought of the day. Soooo funny.

 

[LAW75]

In the vein of, "I don't know everything, but I know people who do," herewith Curt Arndt's reply to your inquiry #2, above:

The hex bolt heads with the depressed circle are proper British bolts/screws and they denote that the fastener is the newer Unified Standard (UNF/UNC) versus the old Whitworth Standard (BSF/BSW) which was slowly phased out in the 1950s. This is why BN1/2s have half Unified fasteners and half Whitworth fasteners, i.e., engine, gearbox, and suspension..

Unified fasteners are the same as SAE fine and coarse or ANF/ANC (American National Fine/Coarse). These are the fasteners that you can find in any modern hardware store. The "triangle" on the head is just one of many markings on US-branded hardware, and while the proper size and thread pitch, and they will work, THEY ARE NOT CORRECT for [Austin-Healey Concours Registry] concours.

[Note in Austin-Healey Concours Registry inspections there is a half point deduction] ... for EVERY incorrect fastener with NO upper limit. Therefore, [if you have] 100 incorrect fasteners, you start out with a Silver award, losing 50 points [out of the theoretical perfect car with 1,000 points] right off the top.

For what it's worth, besides the depressed circle, there may be a vendor name (WILEY, WODEN, TWL, LINREAD, AUTO and about 35 more) and a letter code (B, R, S, T, V etc...) denoting the strength rating.

Curt also sent several dissertations of post-doctoral quality on the subject. They are in PDF format and guaranteed to make your eyes bleed in their level of detail. Send me your email address in a PM and I'll forward them to you, but only if you're a true glutton for this stuff.

Hello again Reid. Took and implemented all your direction and things are going well. More issues have come up and would again, appreciate your sage advice, if you would pretty please...(I have read, many times, the '21 and '22 Concours Guidelines and do not ? believe the questions below are covered, although I could have missed it or not have a clear understanding of that portion)

1. Are the nuts on the two bolts that fasten the door stops, welded on the other/inner side? If not, how to change those bolts to get up to correctness?

2. Do the bolts that fasten to the bump box (rear wheel wells) have washers under the head? Flat? Lock? And, I assume the nuts on the other side are welded in position?

3. Are door strikers polished gloss finish? If not, what would they be? Mine are a dull metal.

4. Is the buckle that is attached to the leather strap that keeps the spare tire in place, completely black gloss or just the "rolling" piece on the top of the buckle?

5. If I do not have the red battery switch paper tag, will I get a point reduction? If so, any suggestions on where I might obtain? Tried the usual Moss, AH Spares, ebay.

6. Which way (head in or out) does the 4 bolts that attach the bonnet to their hinges go?

7. On my dangling strap (about 1' thick by 7" long) problem, attached to the front part of my hood cover *when in down position". My research indicated that it must have a tenax/snap set up where the tenax is fastened to the inside back wall so that the strap will pull the cover forward when the top cover is on. But, the tenax appears to have a bolt shaft and not a screw to fasten. Is there hiding somewhere in the wall (and therefore under the trim) a pre-drilled hole the tenax goes into? How do I fasten the studs?

8. The Guidelines refer to two rubber buffers fastened with split rivets and washers, attached to the outer rear edge of each of the front inner wheel arches. I looked there and cant fathom what and where. Any help?

Well, that is it for me. Your advice and any colonoscopy humor would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Hello again Reid. Took and implemented all your direction and things are going well. More issues have come up and would again, appreciate your sage advice, if you would pretty please...(I have read, many times, the '21 and '22 Concours Guidelines and do not ? believe the questions below are covered, although I could have missed it or not have a clear understanding of that portion)

1. Are the nuts on the two bolts that fasten the door stops, welded on the other/inner side? If not, how to change those bolts to get up to correctness?

2. Do the bolts that fasten to the bump box (rear wheel wells) have washers under the head? Flat? Lock? And, I assume the nuts on the other side are welded in position?

3. Are door strikers polished gloss finish? If not, what would they be? Mine are a dull metal.

4. Is the buckle that is attached to the leather strap that keeps the spare tire in place, completely black gloss or just the "rolling" piece on the top of the buckle?

5. If I do not have the red battery switch paper tag, will I get a point reduction? If so, any suggestions on where I might obtain? Tried the usual Moss, AH Spares, ebay.

6. Which way (head in or out) does the 4 bolts that attach the bonnet to their hinges go?

7. On my dangling strap (about 1' thick by 7" long) problem, attached to the front part of my hood cover *when in down position". My research indicated that it must have a tenax/snap set up where the tenax is fastened to the inside back wall so that the strap will pull the cover forward when the top cover is on. But, the tenax appears to have a bolt shaft and not a screw to fasten. Is there hiding somewhere in the wall (and therefore under the trim) a pre-drilled hole the tenax goes into? How do I fasten the studs?

8. The Guidelines refer to two rubber buffers fastened with split rivets and washers, attached to the outer rear edge of each of the front inner wheel arches. I looked there and cant fathom what and where. Any help?

Well, that is it for me. Your advice and any colonoscopy humor would be appreciated. Thanks

I think the best way to help you find some of your answers would be to have a BJ8 Parts Book and a copy of the Bolt/Screw codes that identify the length n finish of all the screws and bolts. I did that when I was putting my BJ8 back together and it saved me a lot of grief and my Healey is NOT a 100% Concours car by ant means with al, of the improvements that I made to it including a Jule Frame.