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Bulletproofing your Healey

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Hi Greg,

You are absolutely correct.

However, keep in mind that, as I understand, we are discussing Bulletproofing against operational interruption and my point is that when evaluating a change or addition, the effect of the change must be evaluated as the NET of prior against future Risk. Yes, rust particles introduced in the fuel could be a product of an aging fuel tank or introduced in dirty fuel. A filter is one way to capture these particles and most filters will do such a good job as to capture even very fine debris. However, by adding the filter and considering the probability of it being forgotten and/or not check and replaced in a timely manor could result in a net operational risk increased.

Within the context of Bulletproofing for Operational Continuation, it could be considered that the screens on the SU pump and carburetors would stop all but very small particles and they could enter the combustion chamber. However, although I believe there would be a very small probability that these particles would cause combustion chamber damage, in context of our Bulletproofing objective, I would expect engine operation would not be interrupted by this condition.

Again, just my thoughts,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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Would not the effectiveness of both of the above scenarios (original screens vs aftermarket in-line filter) be equally dependant on the observance of proper maintenance schedules? If there is a possibility of the in-line being "forgotten or not checked and replaced in a timely manner" then surely there is at least the same possibility of the carb and pump screens not being checked and cleaned as per original maintenance guidelines.

Neglecting either could result in interuption of engine operation no?

Danny
 
I don't bother to check my screens, and I put up to 5K miles/year on my BJ8. When I have had the screens--either from the carbs or the pump--out for some reason I have yet to see anything that needed to be cleaned out. I did buy a new tank and sealed it, probably 20+ years/80-100K miles ago
 
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Hi Danny,

My experience is as Bob described, however, although I do agree with your premise, the result is in degrees.

To your point, given the inconvenience of accessing a fuel pump screen or a filter located near the pump is about even and the proclivity for not performing these maintenance functions also equal, the division comes with the evaluation of each for blockage potential. Since an in-line fuel filter is designed to capture the finest of debris, the chances of it clogging from bad gas or a rusting fuel tank are higher then screens and cause the flow of fuel to slowdown or stop before the same would happen using only original-type screens. Yes, there could be future ramifications as a result of passed debris ... or maybe not ... either way a topic for another thread.

Again, my purpose for presenting this viewpoint was to indicate that the accepted application of some modern approaches and component-additions, within the context of Michael's thread, may not be as beneficial as first thought and the possibility of unanticipated consequence is always a factor. I am not saying not to use the changes you feel comfortable with as they can be very beneficial within the overall context of Ownership.

Hope this clears,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
I don't get your arguement Ray. If you don't install a filter, you still need to pull the rear wheel to service the pump screen. No labor is saved. If you install a filter by the carbs, you'll need to check the screen on the pump as often as if there was no additional filter. If you install a filter before the pump, the screens in the pump and carbs won't collect as much debris so they won't need servicing as much due to the finer filtration.

If the filter clogs, it is doing it's job. That tells you the fuel system should be looked at. If it doesn't, that tells you something too.
 
Which in my opinion takes you back to the why not replace the gas tank if, as is often the case, you are getting rust flakes or sediment in the fuel line. The issue will cause the car to stall, especially if you drive hard, sucking more fuel and flakes that have been loosened be the gas sloshing around.
 
Hi Greg,

I can't, and see no need to disagree with any part of your presentation in a broader context. Yes, I have stated previously that maintenance of a filter or screen alone should be done regularly, but not many of us do it regularly. If installed where most have, before the pump, either a filter or (without the filter) a screen will be equally ignored and a pain to service. As I see it, if you install a pre-pump filter and have the issue of dirt in the fuel, a filter will catch the finer debris and will clog before a pump-screen without a pre-pump filter.

In short, and again in context of Michael's thread premise, with Debris in the Fuel, which configuration would Stop the Healey from Running First:

1) A configuration with a pre-pump filter?
2) A configuration with a pump screen only (and no pre-pump filter)?

Simple comparison. Sorry Michael for extending this far longer then I expected.

Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
RAC68 said:
Hi Steve,

Thanks, I stand corrected. However, the fact is the Facet pump is sensitive to contaminants in fuel and requires an input filter for protection.

What's so interesting, in context of our ā€œBulletproofingā€ topic, is that the Healey's technology is not significantly sensitive to fuel contaminants and could easily and reliably handle the dirty fuel of the day. The protection originally placed within our fuel systems consisted of screens on the input side of the SU pump and carburetors to block the passage of quite large pieces of foreign matter. Today, our pump fuels are much cleaner, however, the inclusion of modern technologies (i.e. Facet pump, etc.) into the fuel system now requires we also add a filter to remove relatively fine contaminants from our fuel flow or risk the failure of this unit (i.e. Facet backup pump). So, are we improving the operational reliability of the fuel system or ... increasing risk and adding to the failure potential.

Would it be better to incorporate a backup "SU Fuel Pump" having the same insensitivity to fuel contaminants or, as many have done, add higher levels of filtration to our fuel system for increased security of clean fuel delivery to our carburetors. I often wonder if, by modernizing certain systems in our Healey we may not be improving it but opening it to unanticipated issues.

Don't misunderstand, I do believe there are some technologies that are beneficial and desirable to add and will improve reliability and serviceability. (i.e alternator, electronic ignition, etc.). However, their addition carries its own risk but eliminates more and the substitution results in a net reduction of failure probability.

Just some thoughts,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
Click to expand...


Ray - first of all, I think these discussions are useful for keeping us all sharp!

However, have to say this is basically an argument that the SU pump is more reliable than the Facet for a reason that has to do with passing or not passing particles. Find me an instance of a Facet failing due to sensitivity to particles. While we're at it, an instance of a Facet failing at all.

There's a lot of anecdotal evidence on this forum and the email newsgroup to support my position that the Facet is more reliable than the SU. I maintain that people prefer the SU because of the cute sounds and concours - not because of reliability.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. :smile: Just sayin'...

PS - when I bought my car it had a (failing) plastic German replacement pump - never a real SU, so I had less overhead in reaching a decision to go with a Facet. Especially since I'd had one for years on my Alfa GTV.
 
Hi Steve,

I like the Facet and have one installed in my TR7 for the past 15 years without issue. I am not suggestion the SU is better but it is the most prevalent pump configured in a Healey and, with a 10 cent TSV diode installed, my points-triggered SU pump performed well since 1989. I do prefer the SU points-triggered pump as both reliable and can most often be resurrected should it incur a failure. This can not be said or expected of an electronic pump like the Facet or even the SU-electronic pumps.

To be clear, my comments were directed in line with the Facet's requirement for a filter and was centered on the filter as presented in my last post.

All the best,
Ray(64BJ8P1)
 
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From:
https://valvechatter.us/?p=3365
Ball Joint Dust Covers
Rubber components in todayā€™s restoration world are often very poor quality. Someone on the Healey list serve discovered that Hyundai ball joint covers, past #56828-21010, are of superior quality to that available for the Healey. I ordered and used them and they worked perfectly!
 
twas_brillig said:
From:
https://valvechatter.us/?p=3365
Ball Joint Dust Covers
Rubber components in todayā€™s restoration world are often very poor quality. Someone on the Healey list serve discovered that Hyundai ball joint covers, past #56828-21010, are of superior quality to that available for the Healey. I ordered and used them and they worked perfectly!
Click to expand...

Where did you order them from? I've been trying to find them for a long time.
 
Steve,

I am in the UK, but was able to order them from my local Hyundai dealer using the part number quoted.

Andy
 
BBH said:
Steve,

I am in the UK, but was able to order them from my local Hyundai dealer using the part number quoted.

Andy
Click to expand...

Andy - I tried ordering them a while back from a dealer with a web site - maybe will try it again. Mine have lasted for 10 years or so, but are starting to get small cracks.
 
John,
I ordered a couple from the dealer cited in the link you provided. Got a note back saying the part was discontinued.
lin
 
I just received notice that my order for the rubber dust covers from a Hyundai dealer in Florida could not be filled because they are not available from the factory.

John
 
The tie-rod ends including boots are available cheap on RockAuto, so maybe that's the way to go.

PS - Just ordered these at approx $2.50 each.

When I get them, will provide dimensions on boots, which may be able to be ordered online by dimensions.
 
Lin said:
John,
I ordered a couple from the dealer cited in the link you provided. Got a note back saying the part was discontinued.
lin
Click to expand...
Well that's a fine kettle of fish! Note, I didn't order any myself since I don't need any yet, I just did an internet search for a source for future reference.


We'll see what Steve finds.
 
Well, as a new member, I'm mostly observing but I do agree with the philosphy that promotes a more reliable car with the substitution of modern for ancient. ie alternator in place of generator.
I've,coincidentally, done most of this stuff on my car....alternator, 123Ignition, 7-way fuse box, better lights and more of them, modern relays inside most of those wonderful old Lucas contraptions ie the OD relay, the 8(?) way flasher box etc. 3:54 diff, even a 28% OD. It all helps with peace of mind.
My cooling system seems to work well so I've contented myself with a modern 5 blade fan....not an electric one. Now, one of those failing at the wrong time could ruin your day?
Of course, i've not been able to resist other tweaks here and there. 3 Webers for example......they're in, but the jury's still out!
Simon
 
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