BJ7 Colors

[60TR3A]

I'm considering buying a BJ7 and wanted to know if anyone can tell me what years the Pacific Green over oyster interior was offered. While I'm not a purist, I don't want to overpay for a car that might have the color scheme I covet but which wasn't born that way. Second part of the question then is, if a car is presented in paint &/or interior colors that weren't offered in the year the care was born, how badly does this impact its value if it is otherwise correctly restored? I intend to drive this car and maybe go to a show now and then so I'm not concerned about correctness as much as I am about paying too much if liberties taken in the color scheme adversely affect its value. Any way to quantify that?

Thanks!

 

[stretchit2]

According to Gary Anderson's Book there was a Florida Green over Ivory White available for the BJ7. If the seller has certificate from the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust it would tell you what color(s) the car was born, and a bunch of other stuff. As far as value goes, I think it helps if the color of the car is the same color as it was born. It can't hurt.

Good Luck,

Jeff

 

[60TR3A]

Thanks, Jeff. Am I correct that Florida Green is sort of a pale lime/seafoam color whereas Pacific is more turquoise and a bit darker?

Jeff (too)

 

[stretchit2]

I re-read your post, and I realized you weren't asking about a two tone car but rather exterior and interior colors. In that case Anderson's book suggest that there was an exterior Florida Green Color and a Grey (off white) with Green Piping interior.
My wife must be right I don't listen, or at best I can't read

 

[stretchit2]

Jeff

I would agree with your description of Florida Green, Anderson's book makes no reference to Pacific Green. I am only familiar with the Florida Green as a buddy of mine has a beautiful 59 and it looks great.

Jeff

 

[60TR3A]

Not sure if this link will work or not but here is the car I'm considering:
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/...=&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_36606wt_762

If I were to buy it I'd paint the coves ivory.

It's a beautiful car that only needs to have the seat covers adjusted by a pro to get them to fit better, but the question is if this car has any provenance to justify the high price. Since it is being sold as a consignment, the dealer discloses scant details and doesn't know anything about the car other than the pictures. They are supposed to get documentation from the owner for me to see what the car's history is. If it doesn't have a Heritage Certificate and if this Pacific Green wasn't even offered on '63 cars, what's this car really worth? I'm infatuated with this color scheme and will pay a premium for it and for the fact that the car is nearly flawless cosmetically, but don't want to overpay.

 

[Healey_Z]

I can see that pacific green might be better in smaller doses.

 

[60TR3A]

I can see that pacific green might be better in smaller doses.

I agree and that's why I would paint the coves in ivory like this one:

 

[HealeyRick]

Jeff,

I'm afraid Pacific Green wasn't available on a BJ7 (just checked my copy of Anders Ditlev Clausager's "Original Austin Healey" to back up my memory. And the interior of a Pacific Green car would be grey, not tan. That doesn't mean the price is not justified. Kurt Tanner has been selling Healeys in non-standard colors at over $100k for some time now. My favorite color combination of his is "California Sage" over linen:

It's an Aston Martin color, never offered on Healeys. The question becomes value of the car at resale. The safest financial bet would be to buy a car done in its original colors as verified by the Heritage Certificate. You might narrow the potential purchasers with this color as Concours types won't be interested. OTOH, you may find someone like you, who just loves the color.

As with the purchase of any "modified" Healey, one must balance the satisfaction of owning a car that hits the sweet spot of your personal preferences against a possibility you might not get everything back that you put into it. If you're like me, since they'll pry my Healey from my cold dead hands, my sons will have to deal with a few bucks less in their inheritance.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

According to the Picovnik book Pacific Green was offered from August of 1956 to June of 1962, through the "Mark II" BT7 and BN7 cars. Some people value correctness and will pay 'extra' for it, but some people will pay extra for a color they like whether it's original or not (witness the Kurt Tanner cars painted in Aston Martin colors selling for top dollar+ at B-J).

I'm not as familiar with BJ7s, but I don't believe the battery and fuel lines are routed correctly near the rear axle. Generally, you don't route electrical and fuel lines such that they can be crushed if the car gets high-centered. Also, it looks like there have been dogleg repairs that look a bit off. I know you didn't ask, but that's a lot of dough and maybe you can negotiate some.

 

[bighealeysource]

I agree with Bob, price seems high even though it appears to be a very nice car. One question I have is the interior color in oyster white is not listed as an option in all the sources I have available - Anderson/Moment and Clausager. I had a BN6 that was originally Florida Green with Grey interior. Found a few bits of the original grey under the parcel shelf and it was definitely not light/white like Oyster white but more of a dirty light beige/grey. So in addition to not being a standard color, interior might also not be standard. But, if you like the color combo, that's what counts to you. What should the correct price be, guess market will answer that on this ebay auction. But I definitely do not feel it is worth $76,900 for a BJ7 done up in the incorrect finish and trim colors. Be interesting to see how high it goes but think well short of buy it now. Personally I am of the group that feels they should be restored as original but at the very least with colors correct for the model and year.
Regards,
Mike

 

[60TR3A]

Thanks for all your thoughtful responses, guys! I agree that if Kurt Tanner's beautiful California Sage car - which is my second favorite color combo - can fetch the big bucks, that I shouldn't be put off this particular car not being totally correct. That being said, this car wasn't done by Kurt Tanner so it doesn't merit the price of one of his masterpieces, but am stymied as to what I should realistically pay for such an otherwise highly detailed restoration.

Because it is being sold by a consignment gallery rather than by the owner, there are scant details thus far available on the car such as Heritage Certificate or lack thereof, so that's my main request from them for now. If they can provide the car's provenance and if it is a numbers matching car, I'll forgive the color change liberties and try to buy the car.

 

[60TR3A]

One last question, folks: Assuming this car can't produce a Heritage Certificate, regardless what colors it bears it likely has non-matching numbers and no matter how nice it looks it doesn't justify such a high price. Do you think $65K would be a reasonable price to pay for such a non-matching numbers car as this appears to be?

 

[Bob_Spidell]

One last question, folks: Assuming this car can't produce a Heritage Certificate, regardless what colors it bears it likely has non-matching numbers and no matter how nice it looks it doesn't justify such a high price. Do you think $65K would be a reasonable price to pay for such a non-matching numbers car as this appears to be?

Nope.

 

[Healey_Z]

This is an interesting discussion.

I place a higher value on a car with striking color combination, like the California Sage car, over a non-flattering original color. There are perhaps more people with the exact opposite view. Does a non-original color make the car less valuable? I would say no, if there are sufficient numbers of buyers that place a similar value on the car as you. I see the same discussion in the vintage Ferrari world as well.

I let "what I like" be my guide. In the end, I have always found plenty of people that like what I like and have never had trouble moving my cars to the next buyer for a profit.

 

[bighealeysource]

Agree with Bob again - $65k seems too high. BJ7's seem to be at the low end of the totem pole for the convertible Healey's just like my 100-6 was at the low end of that same pole for the roadsters. The less than marketable color combo will drag the pricing down as well to a much smaller customer base. It's apparently a owner's restoration project versus a professional job so that could impact the value down although I have seem owner restorations that are the equal to a Kurt Tanner car - one of them owned by one of our regular contributors here on BCF.
This all being said, be surprised if it hits mid 60's and I would certainly offer less to see what happens, maybe mid 50's since you like the color combo. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine !
Good luck,
Mike

 

[60TR3A]

This is an interesting discussion.

I place a higher value on a car with striking color combination, like the California Sage car, over a non-flattering original color. There are perhaps more people with the exact opposite view. Does a non-original color make the car less valuable? I would say no, if there are sufficient numbers of buyers that place a similar value on the car as you. I see the same discussion in the vintage Ferrari world as well.

I let "what I like" be my guide. In the end, I have always found plenty of people that like what I like and have never had trouble moving my cars to the next buyer for a profit.

I fully agree and have now moved on beyond the color question. I can forgive the fact that A-H didn't paint the BJ7 in Pacific Green but since I want a roll-up window car, I'm not in the market for a 100-6 so if I want those colors, I have to compromise on originality.

My concern now is that the car doesn't seem to have any documentation, so if it's not eligible for a Heritage Certificate, then no matter how nice the restoration or how much the colors speak to me, I don't want to throw my money away by overpaying for a non-numbers matching car. Since I'd probably keep the car for the rest of my life (I'm 65), and assuming that it is truly a healthy, well-restored car, even if not numbers matching I might pay up to $65K for her and not worry about resale value. Am I crazy?

 

[bighealeysource]

Hey 61TR3A,
You're not crazy, particularly if you LIKE that Healey. You can still get a Heritage certificate regardless of the current engine, trans, colors, etc. You simply need the car number on the body ID tag which is on the firewall. The one in the picture looks original and unless I am mistaken, you can even verify that with a number stamped on the right front shock tower bracket( at least on BJ8's) That car number will get you everything you need from UK and give you original color, trim, top, engine number, when built,etc. Takes about 2-3 weeks to get unless they are quicker now. It may still be a "numbers matching" BJ7, just not the original colors. We are not as hung up on that say as the Porsche 356 folks where numbers matching is a religion, expect perhaps on a few limited production models. I'm 64 so you need to get one to enjoy and if you like the color combo, go for it ! Not going to be any easier to get in 'em the older we get. I've managed to figure out a good way to get in and out of my 100M but sure it looks humorous to some. I would certainly recommend that you make the purchase contingent on an inspection. Car is apparently in Grand Rapids where a great MG guy lives, John Twist with his re-opened University Motors. Sure he could easily inspect a Healey and make sure everything is as nice as the pics show or not. Still believe $65k is on the high side but if that is what it takes to get this car, you like it, and it's in your budget, Happy Healeying !!
Regards,
Mike

 

[Bob_Spidell]

$65K and up is what you'd expect to pay for an original, low-mileage, well-preserved or excellently restored BJ8 which, fair or not, is the most desirable of the generally-available Big Healeys (100Ms, tri-carb center-shift BN7s and a couple others excepted).

OTOH, if you want that car and you're OK with whatever price you can get then go for it. I'll repeat my caveat about the electrical and fuel lines; routing them under the chassis is a safety issue.

 

[60TR3A]

Hey 61TR3A,
You're not crazy, particularly if you LIKE that Healey. You can still get a Heritage certificate regardless of the current engine, trans, colors, etc. You simply need the car number on the body ID tag which is on the firewall. The one in the picture looks original and unless I am mistaken, you can even verify that with a number stamped on the right front shock tower bracket( at least on BJ8's) That car number will get you everything you need from UK and give you original color, trim, top, engine number, when built,etc. Takes about 2-3 weeks to get unless they are quicker now. It may still be a "numbers matching" BJ7, just not the original colors. We are not as hung up on that say as the Porsche 356 folks where numbers matching is a religion, expect perhaps on a few limited production models. I'm 64 so you need to get one to enjoy and if you like the color combo, go for it ! Not going to be any easier to get in 'em the older we get. I've managed to figure out a good way to get in and out of my 100M but sure it looks humorous to some. I would certainly recommend that you make the purchase contingent on an inspection. Car is apparently in Grand Rapids where a great MG guy lives, John Twist with his re-opened University Motors. Sure he could easily inspect a Healey and make sure everything is as nice as the pics show or not. Still believe $65k is on the high side but if that is what it takes to get this car, you like it, and it's in your budget, Happy Healeying !!
Regards,
Mike

Funny! You're the third person to recommend John Twist at University Motors. It's probably a moot point because I doubt they are willing to accept $65K so I've got a lot of deciding to do because I can buy a very nice two-owner '63 in red for around $49K. If I really want turquoise over ivory, I can always pay to get a frame-off paint job and new interior, but that seems crazy as the red car has a beautiful, new, custom-made (not kit) interior so maybe I should settle for second best color choices and save over 20-grand. Maybe my best choice is to buy the red car, drive it and enjoy it for a few years, and if I really want the turq/ivory, I can always do the color change then. Got a lot to think about...