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Tips
Tips

TR2/3/3A Beginning the TR2 Bodywork

Now we're in the home stretch. Time to "wet sand" or "block" the car. This layer of primer is only the first. Even if everything goes perfectly, I am planning to need at least one more coat before we get to the final painting. Let's get started...







We are going to wet sand now, so anything that cannot get wet must be covered. I am placing plastic over the filler neck to keep water out. Other holes just get a towel under them, so the water won't spot my interior work.



I know that I will need at least one more coat of primer after I sand this one, so I will use 220 grit wet or dry paper. 220 will not show under primer, but it will show sanding marks under finish color coats. I am using it now as it will speed the job immensely. For all subsequent primer layers we MAY be spraying color over them, so we will switch to 400 grit for them.



Organize your sanding blocks. You want the longest block you can use, for whatever area of the body you are working on. This is very important! Use the longest block you can! The blocks you see on the right use a full length of standard sand paper. The ones on the left used the same paper, only sliced short side instead of long. The shorter blocks are only for curved sections and areas too small to fit a long block.

Our goal from here is to make our large panels...doors, wings, boot lid and bonnet...as straight and smooth as a mirror. You do this by using the flattest, longest sanding block possible. Short blocks will result in waves on large panels. Long blocks cut the highs and straighten everything out.



Now we fill a clean bucket with water. You can use a hose, and let water run over the area you are sanding...but that will get water everywhere. Since my interior has a lot of mechanical and electrical parts installed, I will minimize water use by using a bucket. Oh, if you do use a hose, cover the threads of the hose with tape to prevent scratching the paint when the hose end hits the car.



Now we sand! and sand!! and sand !!!



In general you want circular motions. On large panels, you can use back and forth, but only in the cars "lengthwise" direction. Going back and forth cuts grooves, but these are not noticeable if in the lengthwise direction. Don't ask me why...just a tip given to me long ago. The circular motion will minimize grooving.



Every few minutes use your hand towel to dry the area you are working on. This gives you an idea of how your progress is going, since you can't see when wet. This is the first time I used this towel...within 15 minutes it is saturated with primer dust, and dark grey. When the rag adds as much dust as it removes, dip it in your bucket and wring it out.



These next series of photos will show you how to read your work. In the above pic you can see dark and light areas. The light is the area that is already sanded...and made perfectly flat like we want it. The dark areas are low spots, where the sanding has not reached yet, and that are NOT flat yet.

Our goal is to sand until the entire area is light colored, with no dark spots...OR, until we break through to our under coat of black.

Read the above line carefully. We are not just mindlessly sanding. We are making a mirror surface for our base color coat. So...we need the sanding to reach the ENTIRE panel, with no exceptions. But, if we hit the black under coat, then we know wee cannot keep going or we will break through to bare metal. So, sand until the area is light, or you break into the black, in my case. We will have to rely on the NEXT layer of primer to reach any dark spots we have after we reach our "stop" tell tale black under coat.



Frequently rinse your paper, so the dust build-up will not mar the paint.



As one area is fully sanded to light color...move slowly to new areas.



Here is an example of my black undercoat showing through. There are still some low spots nearby...but if I try to reach them I risk cutting into bear metal in this area. This "tell" color lets me know to stop for now. I will build the lows with the next coat of primer...and sand again!



This area is interesting, as it shows how you can use a top coat of thin paint as a tell. Notice that the Racing Green oversprayed onto the grey primer. When you are new to painting, and having trouble "reading" your work, this can be a big help. If I sand until the green it completely gone...then I have a perfectly flat and sanded surface with no low spots. If there is green left, then there are still low spots.

So, let's read the pic above...

The green left on the primer tells me I still have a LOT of low areas...in fact any area that is still green. But, in the lower right you can see a small spot of black showing. that tells me I am near cutting to bear metal in that area. So...I need to continue sanding the green areas until more black shows through or the green is gone...whichever occurs first.



Here is an area without the cover tell coat. As you can see, even without the tell coat you can easily see the little low spots. As you get better at reading the surface, the cover coat is a waste of time. In this pic there is no black showing, so I can keep sanding until these little lows are gone.



Here is the boot lid, after using the long block as much as possible. No dark areas in the middle...so it is good. I will have to switch to a rounded block and a shorter block to get the sides. Never tilt a block to reach a low.

NEVER TILT A BLOCK TO REACH A LOW SPOT!!!



This is one of my spot putty spots. I layed the deck lid on some fabric before it was dry, and got this odd pattern. This area was so low that I could see before I started sanding that it would need "extra" help...so I hit it with spot putty ahead of time. If you look REAL close to the upper right, you can see a little pin hole that is still low. If you can you are getting "the eye"!



More dark low spots...no black so I can work them some more with the block.
 


Here is how the towel looks by the end of a session of sanding. Not a big deal...just rinse and wring every so often.







This is pretty close to all the areas I could work with the long block. I will have to switch to a smaller block to reach the smaller panels and curved sections.



Here the car is back in the garage. I had to show this tip. The primer I am currently using has a distinct color break between sanded and not sanded. this is high quality urethane primer, and is designed by PPG to do just that. With other brands, there may be little to no color break after you sand...which makes telling low spots trickier. In this pic I am using a shallow view angle with a back light...in this case outdoor daylight...to highlight the "shinier" spots that are still lows. You can do the same thing with a work lamp, used at a shallow angle. Just another technique to tell where you have sanded enough.



Day 2. I started by finishing any area I can with the long block. Remember...longest block possible!



This is about as far as I could get with the long.



Time to switch to the short block and keep going. Once I have done all I can with it, I will switch to a rounded block to get the concave areas.

Only use "soft" blocks on areas that cannot be reached with any other hard block.

Do not use your hands. Do not use your hands. Do not use your hands as a block. And no, that is not a typo. It is a tempting way to sand that will wave your body in a heartbeat...not acceptable.



In case you lost perspective...this is where we are going! After all these years I can see every wave in this TR3 finish that I wish I had spent more time working out. Do not get in a hurry. If you get frustrated, take a day or two off. Wet sanding cannot be rushed...and it's the difference between a $1k paint job and a $20k paint job. Best of all, it doesn't cost much at all to achieve if you supply the elbow grease!
 
Looking great John....I actually enjoyed wet sanding :cool:

Cheers
Tush
 
Looking great.

I am taking careful notes and book marking sections for when I get to that stage.

Are you going to collect all your photos and tips into a book? Could be a best seller.

David
 
Definitely book material. I have been downloading some section for future reference as well (I hope that is OK). I hope I can show the patience, and 1/4 the skill, you have demonstrated!!
Take care,
 
Yeah...this is likely the best photo documented restoration in history. My TR2 folder has over 5300 pics!

We had 90 mph winds come through last night, so fixing wind damage is going to slow my Triumph work a bit. Bummer! Probably happened because I posted a pic of the Triumph I sold. The good Lord doesn't approve of selling Triumphs.
 
Probably happened because I posted a pic of the Triumph I sold. The good Lord doesn't approve of selling Triumphs.

Im not taking any chances :smile:

Cheers
Tush
 
On your seats and interior did you go with John Skinner because of Quality, Price or delivery

I see that TRF has a trim sale till Friday 7 of April.

David
 
Last time I used Moss and had no complaints. A few loose wrinkles in the leather seat upholstery...but I see that on most interior kits. Padding on panels was much thicker than original, but only a handful of Triumph guys would recognize that.

Skinner has a good reputation, has been doing this a very long time, and the exchange rate made it cheaper than Moss or TRF. Moss and TRF don't give you much info on the materials being used or any color details, although they will be happy to send samples. Skinner knows and answers all your questions about materials, color originality, and fit. The only down side is he takes 6-8 weeks from ordering. I'm 2-4 weeks from delivery, so will update when I get it...but that won't help decide on the TRF sale!?! The good news, with the sale you will likely save over the Skinner prices, even with the exchange rate.

Oh...just remembered...I ordered the entire kit and caboodle. Top, Tannau, complete interior including the boot, stick cover, and extra material to fab the sidescreens myself later. The big three could not guarantee that all the materials would match. Skinner would, and let me know ahead of time that only certain colors could be matched between the leather, interior vinyl and PVC top materials. My wife insisted that all the covers match the interior. So I guess the big deciding factor is Skinner offers custom matching, whereas the big three have what they have.
 


I got the overdrive wiring built, so finally got the center tunnel installed. The dash will need to be covered before anything else can be done inside that cabin.





So, here is where I am after the initial sanding. The red spots are "new" spots where there were pin holes or other imperfections resulting in low spots. I have hit them again with the the spot putty, and will go a second round of sanding to clear them back up. After this round of spot putty is sanded, it will be time for the next coat of primer.

In the mean time:



Before we get much farther on the finish, this is a good time to stop and fit the stone guards. If you remember, I actually fit these a while back, while the body was still in white, BUT!..since then you will remember that I had to extend the right wing, which ruined the stone guard on the right side, and the small left guard fell off the bench and got run over. So here is a quick recap on how to polish them. The Moss and TRF guards come with a brushed finish. We are going to make them into a mirror finish.



After you bend them to fit well, file any sharp edges smooth. The guards come with some waves from the stamping process...I also file those down smooth.



Now we sand any imperfections with 220 grit. Then, the factory brush marks get removed with 400 grit on the entire surface. Finally, 1000 grit cleans up the scratches from the 400...and gets the surface ready to buff.



Buff with a cotton wheel on high speed.



And then finish with a good aluminum polish. I really like the Harley products. There are other great products, but if you have trouble picking, everything Harley makes is great stuff, although priced at a prime.



And now all the guards are ready to go on. I won't have to worry about marring the paint job later.

So, just to recap how the finish is going:

1) We leveled the entire body using glaze and filler.

2) We sealed with a contrasting color epoxy etching primer (black in this case).

3) We immediately oversprayed the sealing primer with a contrasting color urethane sanding primer. Choose a color that is dark or light, to go with your desired final paint color. In other words, don't use a dark primer under a white color, or a white primer under a black finish.

4) We waited several weeks for all the epoxies, polyesters, and urethanes to fully cure.

5) We preceded sanding by hitting any obvious lows with spot putty.

6) We wet sanded the car using 220 grit and the longest block we could, for the areas it would reach.

7) Any low areas that could not be reached were re-spot puttied again.

8) The treated "spots" were re-sanded again with wet 220 grit.

From here, I will tape off the car and spray the next coat of urethane primer. Then I will repeat steps 5-8, except this time using 400 grit wet paper...on the off chance that I can spray the color over that coat of primer. Of course, I will repeat spraying the primer until I am satisfied with the finish that comes out...so it may take one more spray before I'm happy. You don't want too many red "spots" from the putty under your finish coat, as they can sometimes show through your color if the color goes on too thin!

Anyway...I'll be back at work next week...
 
David, TRF is over priced, if your spending that money just buy Skinner. Moss is good for carpet as they stock it and the price is good. Skinner can put together a whole kit and do it properly. If your going to spend the money on TRF just buy it all from Skinner. I have personally purchased carpet, seats, panels from him but Tops and covers from Robbins.
 
Thank you for the thoughts on John Skinner and TRF.
I got a quote from John and am going to compare prices. It seems that John has better prices.
I did notice he uses foam padding in the seats and the TRF claims to use the original material.

When you polish the stone guard will you apply any finish to preserve the shine.

David
 
Gotta love Brexit!

I got the seat padding from Rimmer Bros. It is not real horse hair, but some similar looking material. If you want comfort, everyone seems to like the foam. I used the original style padding on my TR3 and was happy with it so will repeat it on the TR2.
 
Really nice job on the Stone Guards John. They appear to fit very well. I'm sure that wasn't an accident. They are really pretty easy to metal work, file, sand, and polish. Great photo documentation!

Pat
 
Wow! Thank you very much for the information, enthusiasm, and knowledge.

I am restoring a 1954 Tr2 long door that had the floors "replaced" and the bottom 3" or so of the kick panel, bulkhead
and sloping floor aft cut away and pieces brazed in with little respect to any dimensions, style, care, thought for the car.

Your site has provided a huge amount of information and got me back on track with the restoration following a year long
chassis restoration.

A nod to Tush for his site inspiration.

Thanks so much.

Glenn
 
Hi Glenn,

Welcome to BCF!

John is a true master at this car restoration stuff. Me, not so much, but I have learned quite a bit from guys like John and know that if I have any questions or I run into trouble, one of these guys will have my back.

We look forward to hearing more about your project...a rare one to be sure.

Cheers
Tush
 
Thanks guys!

No, I don't plan to spray the stone guards. I am open to changing my mind, though, if anyone has experience with like a urethane coating?











So, done with sanding the first coat of urethane primer. That's the good news...the bad is that with the order I am working, the entire car has to be masked to spray the next coat of primer. So, here she is all draped out and ready to spray.

Note: Save yourself a ton of grief and don't even consider using masking tape from Lowes/Home Depot/Ace/etc. Bite the bullet and fork out the cash for decent tape from an auto paint supply. Even then...ask them for "the good stuff"! Cheap tape tears as you remove it from the roll...usually because it sat on the shelf too long. It doesn't stick well to many surfaces, but then it sticks TOO well to others, so you find yourself pealing and wiping with adhesive remover for hours.

Good tape sticks great and comes off easily, period. One more caution...even with the good tape, do not leave the tape on more than a week, as the adhesive will transfer to your work. This is especially true in hot weather.

The plastic and masking paper came from Lowes. Any masking media will work once you have decent tape.



We'll start by re-sealing the spots that sanded through to bare metal or filler. Once again this is my favorite etching epoxy primer.



Notice I am not spraying everything...only the spots where they rubbed through. I allowed about 30 minutes for this primer to cure, and then moved on to:



The high build and easy sanding urethane primer. This will go over everything.



So here we are after the urethane is sprayed. All went well, except...



This is a problem spot on the bonnet. It seems like every job has one spot that causes a problem. Normally its from oil, silicone, or a pinhole full of thinner that prevents a good bond. In this case...I layed the last primer too thick onto the bonnet 3 months ago. That caused a huge run down the gutter on the bonnet, and the paint lifted as the big glob cured and shrunk.

Most poor bonds, like this one, do not show up until the under-layers soften when a fresh layer is sprayed. If you see a sudden "bump" appear as you are spraying...that is a sign that the paint is not bonded properly. Note the location, as it will flatten back out once the new paint is cured! But, even when it flattens down, the de-bond is still present, and if not repaired, the spot will bubble every time it gets in sunlight...at least until the paint cracks and you get a peeling area.

What you are looking at in the pic is an attempt to save this primer coat. I used a knife to scrape the poorly bonded primer down to metal, and then re-spray. This may or may not work, I will have to wait until this coat cures and play with it. If it does not bond well, then I will have to dig out this entire painted area and start over as done in body repair work. Not a big deal, but still a pain...as I said, every job has a problem spot!?!













And that's where I'll leave you for the week. I will let this primer cure for at least a week, although it could be sanded as early as this afternoon...but I like to allow it to fully cure, as some shrinkage will occur. When it quits smelling up the garage, then it is fully cured.

After a week, we start all over again! Spot treat, wet sand, and spot again as needed. This time around the sanding will be with 400 grit...as, if I am lucky, the color may be able to go over this layer. I even bought the color and clear, so it is ready to spray when needed.

During this week I will likely take a break on bodywork and move back to the "TR2 Recipe thread", to work on a few odds, like painting the steering wheel and hand crank. Cheers till then!
 
Looking great.

Was that tape in the door and bonnet gaps? I presume it was to prevent over spray getting on to the single stage finish paint on the inside.


Does John Skinner provide any fitting instructions with his seats? I have decided to put in an order to John later this month. The production delay will not bother me as I am a long way from needing the seats.

David
 
Yep, the gaps are filled with 3/4" tape that I folded in half with the sticky out...and then worked it into the gaps. It takes some practice. For the color I have decided to remove the doors/boot lid and bonnet again, so I can spray all the mounting hardware easily with color. The alternative I was considering was to mask each bolt head and spray them one at a time. I think the time to remove the big parts will take less effort overall. I am soooo tempted to spray the beading installed too! The beading is a pain... if you spray the wing mounting bolts before installing the beading, then the bolts will get marred when you go to install the beading. But, if you spray the beading installed, then you risk paint cracking where the beading meets the metal parts. It's kind of a "better of two evils" decision to make!?!

I am looking at getting the interior by early next month. I'll fill you in on what is included with it. If you like I'll start another thread on the interior installation....including seat covering.
 
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