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1500 - water pump kaput

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Well! You are NOT going to believe this!!!

I filled up with coolant and started the engine. There is WHITE smoke coming out of the exhaust!! How can this be?!?!?!

Given my last nightmare failure involving the C. H. of someone else's car, I just can't bear to think of what else it can be but a return to the bliss of C. H. repair.

It HAS to be something else!

Oh!! Oh!! Oh!! For an extra kick in the crank nut, as I turned the engine off, there was a very nasty scrapy/grinding noise from the engine area. I can move the water pump clutch fore and aft 1/16", measured at the tip of the prop blades. Is that normal or has that gone south as well.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!!!!!!!!
 
OK, just done compression readings - 120, approx, on all cylinders but fairly quickly decreasing to zero. Normally I have time to get from the cockpit and take an accurate reading from the dial but not this time.

Theory: Yanking on the wrecker (apt?) bar to free up the crank nut, with the rope down the hole, pulled up the C. H. (I can't say the words) ever so slightly to knacker up the C. H. gasket seal. Gasket was probably iffy and didn't someone say it was a weak spot on the 1500's? If it is blown, better in my garage than 200 miles away on a cold and windy night with the wife in the passenger seat, "out of network" on the cell phone, etc.

The compressor is charging up and I'm off to do some leak- down tests.

Oh, no! I've just had a horrible thought - you don't think it pulled the C.H. studs out?
 
OK, just done the leak down testing.

From 80 psi, all cylinders shot down to 60 -65 psi. This is bad, obviously. However, as far as I could make out, the leak is coming out of the plug holes. I was expecting, at least with one cylinder under test, the air would bubble out of the radiator over-flow bottle.

Theory: With the leak down test, the air is taking the path of least resistance which is across the shot gasket into adjacent cylinders. When I fired the engine up this morning (it ran OK but with some "missing") the gases again took the path of least resistance but this time it was across the shot gasket into the water passages.

Now, you might think "Well, pull the bloody head off and find out!" However, one thing I've taken in during MG ownership is that time spent analysing is better than time spent going ape with the wrenches.

Also, I don't feel like going ape at the moment - I just want to sit down and have a beverage and ponder the most excellent job I done on the water pump R&R. Ha!

OK, I'm just going to swab the decks down this evening in preparation for the inevitable tomorrow and I am eagerly awaiting the forum's enthusiastic replies. :laugh:

Cheers!
 
I doubt you lifted the head. That's a soft push anyway, not the BANG BANG BANG of ignition. Just calm down and relax.

Now....you might have blow the gasket from running it hot w/ the leaking pump, but I REALLY don't think you pushed the head off seal.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, maybe you should use a smaller Jones.
grin.gif
Maybe get medium or small Jones to help you. :thumbsup:


Rejoy, if it's a head gasket, you have enough experience now it'll be a breeze.

I'd try a pull on the torque wrench myself.

If it's the gasket, I'd pull the motor, change the rings and all seals and be done with it. Piece mealing will drive you nuts!
 
kellysguy said:
...I doubt you lifted the head. That's a soft push anyway, not the BANG BANG BANG of ignition...
Click to expand...
Don't forget I also jammed the breaker bar and hit the starter, at least a dozen times.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]...you might have blow the gasket from running it hot w/ the leaking pump...[/QUOTE]Well, I kept a very close eye on the temp gauge and it didn't get hot at all. I'm also beginning to suspect the pump was OK after all and the horrible noise was coming from the fan clutch. Is it supposed to wobble slightly?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]...maybe you should use a smaller Jones...[/QUOTE]I keep asking where my four sons are to help me out but the wife reminds me I haven't any.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]I'd try a pull on the torque wrench myself.
[/QUOTE]Do you mean untighten slightly and re-torque each nut in turn? That might be worth a go but would you trust the gasket ever again?

Cheers
 
I'd be inclined to go for a new gasket - cheap insurance to my mind, if it has been crushed or lifted....

It's a quick fix (and means you are doing it right)
 
Definitely a new gasket based on your leak down results. and take a good look at where the head bolts go into the block. I might bet dollars to donuts you will find you have stretched the cast iron threads in the block. Just how hard to you twist on this? You will want to inspect this area very carefully.

m
 
I'd just see if they are loose with th wrench first.

Sure it's not rope bits burning off/out?


Yeah, the clutch is supposed to wobble some......right before the fan eats the core out of the radiator. :wink:
 
JPSmit said:
I'd be inclined to go for a new gasket
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking

SilentUnicorn said:
you will find you have stretched the cast iron threads in the block.
Click to expand...
OK, someone please wake me up.

kellysguy said:
Yeah, the clutch is supposed to wobble some......right before the fan eats the core out of the radiator. :wink:
Click to expand...
So, no fore or aft movement, whatsoever, is that correct?
 
Fair enough, Kellysguy.

This is a weird coincidence but I think I'm buying one off your dad, Morris. Is he really your dad, I've been meaning to ask for ages.

Cheers!
 
SilentUnicorn said:
Definitely a new gasket based on your leak down results. and take a good look at where the head bolts go into the block. I might bet dollars to donuts you will find you have stretched the cast iron threads in the block. Just how hard to you twist on this? You will want to inspect this area very carefully.

m
Click to expand...
I pulled down fairly hard on the breaker bar until I had a feeling something was going to snap :laugh:.
Then after that, I wedged the breaker bar and hit the starter button a dozen times. (Ouch!)

I'll know soon enough but give us a clue here - those studs should have zero up and down movement and they shouldn't have any sideways. Is that how you know? Is there a test that could be done before I put the head back on?

Who do I pray to? MOWOG may not be appropriate here as this is a Triumph engine.

Cheers!
 
I really hope that is not what happened.

When you pull the head look at the block where the head studs go in. You are looking to see if the material around those threaded holes is lifted in any way. generally one would countersink these holes before assembly so that when torquing the head you don't lift the first thread up any..Inspect your head bolts for any material as you remove them.

The fit of the threads should be very nice with imperceptible to a very slight wiggle- post pictures as you go...



m
 
Morris and I are close in age. TOC is Dad and no, he's not my real dad. Personal joke, his wife was a secretary for a church for 27 years and so was my mother.
 
kellysguy said:
his wife was a secretary for a church for 27 years and so was my mother.
Click to expand...

and that's how rumors get started
 
different church so I doubt the web will be abuzz that I'm his love child.

( but hey, if it gets me the Jag....Dada Dada !!!)
 
kellysguy said:
but hey, if it gets me the Jag....Dada Dada !!!)
Click to expand...
:lol:

Just had a thought (uh, oh!):
Before I pull the head, what if I go round and re-tighten all the CH nuts, like Kellysguy says. Undo a nut, a quarter turn maybe, then attempt to re-tighten to the spec, 46 ft-lb. Then do the next nut in the proper tightening sequence. Won't this tell me whether the studs have stripped out?

I'm moving kind of slow on this but I've got the radiator out, carb out, alternator out the way. Now working on them pesky bottom manifold nuts.

Cheers!
 
it is worth a shot- however if the gasket is shot, do you think it will reseal?
you could try and then redo your leakdown test. i would also see what torque it takes to break a CH bolt loose. this could tell you something too.

m

Did you put rope in all four cylinders?
 
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