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TR2/3/3A TR2-4 86mm standard rings

Tim Tucker

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Hi all!
I am doing some work on my engine and would like to buy new 86mm std. rings. I had hoped to buy Deves. Can't find them. I ordered from one vendor and received 86mm standard GRANTS. Are these good? I plan on honing with my flex hone. What's more important to the success of the project: the honing process or the rings? Who makes the best rings that I can get? The guy that sold me the grant rings said that deves had been re-packaging Grants as Deves.

Thanks for any feedback,
Tim
 

BRSLimited

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I've used Grant rings with no problems. Make sure there is no ridge at the top of the cylinder. The biggest thing with honing is make sure you get a good even pattern. The cross hatches should have an angle of aprox 30 degrees to eachother. After honing make sure you get the bore absolutely clean. A little grit missed will quickly eat up new rings.
 

TFB

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hey Tim.If by flex stone if you mean glaze breaker with 3 spring loaded stones I think these are only good for breaking glaze and cleaning bore,as opposed to a rigid hone .The ones with balls on the ends I would not use.I would condition and inspect bores before I thought about rings.Sometimes a bore that looks good doesnt after a pass with the hone.IMHO much easier for backyard mechanic like myself to mess up the bore prep,than difference in ring brand might effect.
Tom
Hi all!
I am doing some work on my engine and would like to buy new 86mm std. rings. I had hoped to buy Deves. Can't find them. I ordered from one vendor and received 86mm standard GRANTS. Are these good? I plan on honing with my flex hone. What's more important to the success of the project: the honing process or the rings? Who makes the best rings that I can get? The guy that sold me the grant rings said that deves had been re-packaging Grants as Deves.

Thanks for any feedback,
Tim
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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IMO, honing affects mostly how quickly (and well) the rings seat; while rings affect the overall life of the engine.

Grants has been around for a very long time, and has an excellent reputation. They didn't get there by selling second-rate rings. I'm pretty sure that is what I used in my TR3A (although I can't swear to it) and they were still good when it got wrecked. Many vintage racers use them as well.

I use a flex hone myself, and it seems to work well for it's intended purpose. But it really is a different tool than a rigid hone; the flex hone's only purpose in life is surface conditioning; while a rigid hone will help clean up (very minor) imperfections in the cylinder wall. Kind of like coarse and fine sandpaper; you only use the rigid hone if necessary, and then use the flex hone afterwards. I find that a slow 1/2" drill motor makes it easier to get a good pattern; smaller drill motors turn too fast.

Don't forget to check the ring end gaps. Some rings are supplied slightly oversize, with the intention that you match them to the bores.
 
OP
Tim Tucker

Tim Tucker

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Thanks for the great replies!

I'm a real believer in the flex-hones made by BRM. I use them on hydraulic cylinders, rotors/flywheels, and cylinder wall that need de-glazing. I believe their literature claims the flex-hone 'eliminates' the entire ring break-in. I try to brake with my engine and avoid long periods on constant piston speed after a rebuild.

The BRM website call for 600-800 rpm with 120-180 inches per minute linear movement. 5-15 total strokes (1/2 in each direction). ATF for honing fluid? What are you guys using?

Thanks for the heads-up on the ring gap. I'm taking my sweet time on this task. Back in the 80's I wanted to drive it ASAP. This time around I want everything weighed-measured-checked. The ring gaps will be checked.

What do you guys think/know about hardening a crankshaft? Nitride? Induction? Is it needed?

Tim
 

BRSLimited

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As far as hardening the crank, it depends on what you plan on doing with it. If your going out racing then it might not be a bad idea. For just here and there pleasure drives I don't see a need. They are very stout cranks and many are still going strong after 50 years of use, abuse, and little if any maintainance. I just tore an engine with 100,000 miles apart a few weeks ago that had been sitting outside in the mud for the last 20 years. Naturally the cylinders are shot but the crank polished up great and measures out standard.
 

KVH

Darth Vader
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When I ordered my Moss Cylinder and Liner kit, I believe all the parts were "County." I didn't recall any recommendations about polishing or honing the rings, not even in the Shop Manual, and if I recall correctly the rings were not beveled in any fashion. The set was slightly over-sized, I believe the 87 mm Kit for the 4A--and it runs strong and smooth. Is shopping the brand, honing and all that really going to do anything noticeable? Is there something real in all that, or don't we pretty much just trust the big names and run with it?
 
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Tim Tucker

Tim Tucker

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I would say you are correct. As it turns out I will be going with what I was sent by one of the big 3. I tried ebay for Deves and was sent 1259.090- 90 over 86mm rings. They went back. I do think the honing is important for previously ran cylinder bores. I believe new liners come with that nice "cross-hatch" of honing.
Tim
 

TR3driver

Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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One of the best running TR engines I ever had was put together with mis-matched liners & pistons from Warshawski's (the "counter" branch of JC Whitney at that time)! Had lots of fun drag racing with the 289 Mustangs. But unfortunately I didn't get to find out how many miles it would last, I doubt it even had 40,000 on it when the car got wrecked and crushed.

BTW, "County" is just a repackager, they don't make parts themselves. And I have seen a case where the box said "Made in UK", while the part inside had a "Made in India" sticker on it. Evidently just the box was made in the UK :smile:
 

KVH

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Randall, I know we're off topic just a bit, but I seem to recall it's a painful story about how that car of yours get wrecked, and if you're planning on resurrecting it one day. What did happen, if I can ask as Christmas fast approaches?
 

TR3driver

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That was a different TR3A and some 35 years ago. Lots of lessons learned, but not so painful. The car itself was a beater that I only paid $150 for (and had to pull out of the backyard it had sunken into). The engine was severely worn out, carried basically no oil pressure at hot idle even with straight 40 weight oil in it; so I started collecting parts to rebuild a spare engine (one of 3 that Dad had gotten with a pile of spare parts for his TR3A). My disposable income back then was only about $50/month, so I was definitely scouting for cheap parts; but the resulting engine (with 87mm liners, 3/4 race cam, TR4A exhaust valves and a cheap header also from Warshawski's) sure pulled strong. It didn't like to idle low, and loped a bit even at 1500 rpm; but somewhere around 3000 rpm it would come "on cam" and away we would go! Eventually broke both the rear axle & the OD gearbox but it sure was fun while it lasted. That was when I learned the hard way that a TR4 axle is wider than a TR3 :smile:

Anyway, I brought the car with me to CA when I moved out here, but didn't have time or money to work on it much. I moved into an apartment building on the side of a fairly steep hill; which we (roommate & I) had gotten cheap because they were planning to convert to condos . 3 story building, with parking both under the building and in an overflow parking lot on the uphill side. The hill was so steep that the overflow parking lot was about the same level as the 3rd floor of the building! I parked the TR in the back of the overflow and more or less forgot about it until a year or so later when they told us to move out. So, I hopped in the TR and headed for my assigned parking spot in the underground garage, which would be more convenient for topping up fluids and so on.

About halfway down the hill, I discovered that I had no brakes! Apparently the hard brake line that runs to the rear axle had gotten damaged enough to scrape off the terne coating, and over time the bare steel had corroded through. Plus the handbrake cable had broken some time before, so it was useless.

I of course did everything I could think of to slow the car down; ground into 1st and shut the engine off plus dragging my left foot on the ground. Had it down pretty slow by the time I ran out of garage; I honestly thought the front wheels would hit the curb and bounce back. Unfortunately it didn't work that way, the car jumped the curb and banged the wall hard enough to force the front apron back into the radiator. Not much I could do at that point (although in retrospect I should have taken out a loan and hired a tow truck) so I put it back into the overflow parking lot and asked the apartment manager if I could leave it there for a month. He said "Sure, no problem".

4 weeks later I returned to find nothing but a spot of oil on the concrete! I went to look for the apartment manager, but apparently the day I wrecked the car was also his last day on the job. And the very first thing the new condo manager had done was to order "that junk" to be towed away! With some digging, I located the tow company that took it; but back then they were only required to hold cars for 20 days and it had already gone to the crusher. Oh well!

I do have hopes of duplicating that engine's performance someday Real Soon Now, got all the parts on hand but it seems that life keeps conspiring to keep it on the back burner. Right now I'm trying to rearrange the garage so I can remove the old workbench and put the new one in it's place, which will hopefully give me some room to work; and I think one of the front tires on the TR3 is coming apart internally so I need to do something about that this week. Then, since the original engine in the TR3 seems to be doing pretty good, I will hopefully get back to doing the rear axle for it (which isn't doing so good), and likely after that I'll tackle the gearbox for Stag #2 so I can get it out of the way. If the TR is still running by then, I'll likely start to work on Stag #1 (which will also be up for sale once it's back to being reliable transportation, ie never.) So it goes.

Long as I'm quoting Vonnegut :

"And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been.
But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human.
So she was turned to a pillar of salt. So it goes."
 
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