What am I seeing - oil/grease on wheel

[drooartz]

This is on my Morris Minor, front wheel. Same basic hub setup as a Spridget. Haven't had a chance to pull the wheel off and investigate, but I'm wondering what this is evidence of. It's only on one side (LH side front).

 

[equiprx]

It could be axle grease weeping out of the hub.
Possibly brake fluid which could destroy the coating on the wheel.
Another less destructive cause could be accumulated water inside the wheel.
Rub your finger on the stuff and if it's greasy/sticky it's a hub seal, if it smells it's brake fluid.
If it's dry or almost dry carbon it's just water and brake dust.

 

[DavidApp]

The way the streaks are running it looks like liquid. Take the wheel off and check for brake fluid leak.

David

 

[drooartz]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll be digging in later this week if all goes well. Hadn't thought about the possibility of brake fluid, I'll make sure to check for that as well.

 

[JPSmit]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll be digging in later this week if all goes well. Hadn't thought about the possibility of brake fluid, I'll make sure to check for that as well.

Hard to imagine brake fluid making its way from the caliper to the centre of the hub. I am more inclined to thing grease or even water.

 

[drooartz]

So got the wheel off today and I have answers (and work to do).

Answer #1: What we're seeing is bearing grease.

Answer #2: (To the next question - why?) Bearing is worn. Quick check and I could wiggle the hub. Guessing maybe it heated things up a bit and thinned the grease, or maybe some water got in there (did drive it through some heavy rain a bit ago). Either way, it's time to rebuild those hubs.

Answer #3: (To the next question - how much?) Yes, the budget will take a bit more of a hit. The last time I worked on the front end the hubs (from a Spridget so can use the disc brakes) the hubs and spindles did seem a bit worn. I almost couldn't get things tightened up enough the when I was in there last. I guess they're now all the way worn. So at a minimum new bearings, possibly new hubs and spindles. I can get new spindles and hubs, so may go full out while I'm in there sorting things out.

 

[Bayless]

Not good news but at least the mystery is solved.

 

[DrEntropy]

Drew, a thought WRT bearings & seals: Look for a "bearing house" in your area. Take the old ones with you and have them matched. Normally somewhat less cost than going to "the usual sources".

Pardon if this is redundant. ISTR suggesting it previously.

 

[drooartz]

I'll take a look, unsure what we have around here. Hubs and spindles are the real cost if I decide to go that way, won't know until I get in there.

This car is running a Spridget disc brake kit -- it's adequate but this might also be a time to switch to a different setup with stronger, larger brakes. We'll see.

 

[DrEntropy]

Where there's a commercial truck repair business, there's a bearing house around.

 

[DavidApp]

Does the MM have the larger radius on the spindle like the Midget? Something to watch when you are bearing shopping. I have just got the Taper roller bearing kit from Moss for about $85.00

David

 

[drooartz]

I believe it does. Even though the upright design is different I'm pretty sure the spindle specs are the same. I'm running a standard, unmodified Spridget front hub to get the disc brakes.

I have been thinking about that tapered bearing kit. There's also a Ford-based disc brake setup that's available for the Morris that I'm considering. The Spridget brakes are okay, but a Morris is heavier than a Spridget so more brakes are a good thing. Still thinking it through.

 

[drooartz]

Ordered parts today. New uprights from England (I knew these were a touch worn), and new hubs, discs, pads, and bearings from Moss (that same tapered kit, David).

I considered the Ford kit again for the Morris, but I've tried it before and found the kit a bit fussy. Had real issues with everything fitting, so at the time (about 5 years ago) I went back to the Spridget disc setup. Brake power is adequate and the parts are easy to get and reliable. Back 5 years ago I new the hubs were a little worn, but was under some need-to-drive pressure so made them work -- we were leaving the next day for a road trip in the car. Can't complain since it lasted 5 years, so now time for some new bits.

I've had this front end apart before, so shouldn't take too long to get it done. Plan is to have the car back on the road before the snow flies, should be doable.

 

[drooartz]

Have all the parts now -- even with some coming from England they only took 3 days to arrive. Spent some time working on the car today and have one side fully disassembled. Got the spindle on that side reassembled today, it's a good start.

 

[drooartz]

Got the other side done today, so both sides have the new spindles installed and ready for the new hubs. I did run into one snag. Unlike a Spridget, the Minor uses a reverse thread on the left front spindle. This means that the new castle nut the Moss kit includes won't work on the front left side. The included nuts are a bit shorter as the bearing stack is a bit taller. This allows the castle nut to line up with the hole for the cotter pin. The stock nuts won't line up. Going to need to sort that out somehow.

At least I'm at the installing new parts and past the removing old, greasy parts stage.

 

[DrEntropy]

Call Moss, unfortunately not 'til Tuesday, and tell 'em about the left-hand nut. They usually try to help if they can. Gotta be a left-thread nut in there someplace!

 

[drooartz]

I'm considering my options. Reaching out to the main Morris supplier in the UK might be the best option, as this is a Minor specific thing and Moss is only tangentially involved with them (lots of crossover to Spridgets).

Or I may just bite the bullet and do the Ford-based kit:
> Disc Brake Conversion Kit (FORD BASED) Complete *** WITH STEEL HUBS *** MINOR 4 STUD PCD - from ESM Morris Minors UK <

The Spridget brakes are a bit marginal on the Minor, as it's a couple hundred pounds heavier than the Spridget. I had some issues before with a similar kit from a different vendor, but ESM is reliable and I'd imagine they have it figured out.

 

[drooartz]

I've gotten some feedback from other Morris owners that have done this conversion/upgrade, and the experience there is to shorten the nut yourself or at a machine shop if it needs to be a bit shorter. That's a reasonable approach, and the direction I'm going to go. As I've thought it over, I'd like to keep the brake setup that's on the car so getting one nut machined a bit is a pretty simple solution.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

I'll take a look, unsure what we have around here. Hubs and spindles are the real cost if I decide to go that way, won't know until I get in there.

This car is running a Spridget disc brake kit -- it's adequate but this might also be a time to switch to a different setup with stronger, larger brakes. We'll see.

Hey Drew,

Don't know if you resolved front brake issues or not. I have a Big Brake Kit from Steve Christiansen 4 POT Wildwood Calipers, Much Larger Rotors, and Heim Joint Tie Rod End Links. He sells kit for $1,250 IIRC, I'm selling for my cost which was $650 plus Shipping. Let me know if intrerested and I can send pics. Nice Instruction Manual to provide all of the details.

 

[drooartz]

Thanks for the heads up and offer, Jim. I did wind up being able to resolve my issue, and am sticking with the stock Spridget front discs and am going to have the nut machined to the proper size. Simpler, and keeps the parts more stock and more available.