TR2/3/3A Went To Fire Up the TR3 Today...Got a Problem

[martx-5]

Everything ready to go after engine rebuild, crank it over and no start. OK let's see if it's gas or ignition, or something else. Squirted some gas in the carbs, and it fired right up, ran for a few seconds, and died. Checked the float bowls. They were full. Pulled the carbs off and checked for flow from float bowls to jets. Everything OK. Even used some water in the float bowls while the carbs were off to see if fluid was getting to the jets. Fluid was getting to the jets. Hooked everything back up again. Pumped the handle on the fuel pump, and the float bowls filled up and I could see fuel just below the jet surface. Still nothing when I cranked. Squirted some more fuel in the carbs, and it fired right up.

I noticed that if I put my hand over one of the carb intakes while cranking, I didn't get much vacuum. I would have thought that it should have wanted to suck my hand in there. I couldn't crank, hold my hand over the intake and also hold open the throttle, so maybe that's why...but I still suspect a problem with a huge vacuum leak that is not allowing the fuel to be pulled in.

Any Thoughts on this issue wil be greatly appreciated.

BTW, the darn solenoid switch stuck closed one time while I was cranking. Good thing one of the battery cables wasn't too tight. And I thought this would be a nice easy day.

 

[TR3driver]

How much choke did you give it ?

Erm, you DID put the pistons & needles back in after you checked for fuel in the jets, right ? Pistons move freely after being installed ? Land with a click ?

Oh, and you blew the water out after the test, right ?

There isn't a lot of vacuum with only one carb blocked at cranking speed. Could be you've got a big vacuum leak (like maybe the intake manifold is hung up on top of one of the dowels) but I think you'd be able to see it easily.

I've been known to even keep them running with judicious squirts of "jet spray" carb cleaner down the throats while I checked for leaks, etc.

I'd replace that solenoid; sounds like it's got a problem that is bound to get worse.

 

[martx-5]

Gave it full choke. Put everything back together, and yes, I blew the water out. With gas as costly as it is, I didn't want to experiment with that stuff. :thumbsup:

The first thing I have to do is replace that solenoid. I may just re-wire it temporarily as I have a starter with a solenoid on it. At least until I get another starter relay switch. I'll dig into the intake maniflod and see what I can see.

And <span style="font-weight: bold">Randall</span>, with all your experience in these matters, would you suspect any timing problems with the cam, even though it started right up with a squirt of gas?? What I'm getting at is do you think that there could be any internal problems causing this? I'll recheck valve clearances and see if I can borrow a compression gauge just to eliminate those possibilities.

Darn I'm so frustrated. Time to step back and suck down a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.

 

[tosoutherncars]

Well, if it runs on the gas you squirt in, but not the gas in the tank... how old is your gas? (Basic, I know...)

 

[TR3driver]

And <span style="font-weight: bold">Randall</span>, with all your experience in these matters, would you suspect any timing problems with the cam, even though it started right up with a squirt of gas?? What I'm getting at is do you think that there could be any internal problems causing this?

Nah, I wouldn't think so. It sucked enough air to run, so should be able to suck enough air to pull fuel out of the jets no matter what other sins may be lurking inside.

On the solenoid, don't forget that the one on the starter takes a lot more activation current than the original did (like 10X as I recall) (and likely has a much bigger inductive kick as well). I didn't want to subject my original starter button to that sort of stress, especially since they were NLA at the time. I see they are only $80 now though, so make your own decision. But a $10 Ford or Chrysler starter relay seems like cheap insurance to me.

 

[TR3driver]

Don't mean to harp; but if the piston(s) are held up by poorly centered jets or bent needles, etc., it could cause the problems you are having. That's why the "click" is important as significant rubbing will prevent the click.

 

[martx-5]

I have Dan Masters wiring harness in the car, and he uses a relay on the starter switch which is a 12 gauge wire. Should be plenty, as IIRC, those Nipondenso solenoids need about 20-25 amps for pull in and then drop down for hold in. At least temporarily until I get another switch.

I'll go through the jet centering again just to be sure as I have the carbs and intake manifold off at the moment.

I'll let you know what I find.

 

[martx-5]

I think I found the problem. Look at the pic. There's a small dent in the header caused by the darn stud on the intake manifold that I never removed!! Had to have caused the manifold not to seat. I can see where the top of the manifold gasket is indented slightly, but nothing on the bottom.

I'll recenter the jets, and then put it back together again and see what happens...after I also unscrew the studs on the intake manifold.

 

[TR3driver]

That would do it!

If memory serves, I've been told that those 4-2-1 headers won't work with the stock TR3 intake manifold. So also check higher up for any interference.

 

[Geo Hahn]

BTW, the darn solenoid switch stuck closed one time while I was cranking. Good thing one of the battery cables wasn't too tight.

I had that happen with the TR3 in gear and parked 3 feet from a concrete wall. I was standing by the right front wheel and with the first lurch the tire rolled onto my foot. Had to wait for the second lurch to free my foot so I could lunge across the engine and yank the ground cable off the battery.

Interesting problem you found, hope that takes acre of it.

 

[martx-5]

OK guys, I removed the studs on the intake manifold, put it all back together. Primed the carb floats, pulled the choke out, turned on the ignition, and then used a screwdriver to bridge across the terminals on that lousey relay switch, and the sucker fired right up. :banana: :banana: :banana:

I ran it about twenty minutes at about 2k rpm to seat the cam. The electric fan kept everything at about 190 deg., so I was glad to see that. The carbs need to be balanced as I just slapped everything together, and there are a mess of other small adjustments to make. No major oil leaks...a drop or two on the floor. I check to see where that might be coming from at another time.

All in all, the day ended on a good note. :thumbsup:

 

[martx-5]

That would do it!

If memory serves, I've been told that those 4-2-1 headers won't work with the stock TR3 intake manifold. So also check higher up for any interference.

Randall, that header took alot of tweaking to get to fit. It caused me more grief that any other mod I've done to this car. It'll fit with the TR3 manifold, but it ain't easy. Oh, and don't forget to remove the studs from the bottom of the intake manifold. :lol:

 

[TR3driver]

Well, if it's any consolation, I've got one hanging on the wall just waiting for me to complete my "hot rod" motor to hang it on.

O'course, I've only been planning it for 20 years, and the accident did set my plans back a little, so ...

 

[DrEntropy]

As an aside: Water will NOT flow as easily as gasoline. If ya wanna test a fuel system for leaks, etc... use MILK!!!

Honestly. Milk has the same flow characteristics as gas. Water will "meniscus" and NOT flow. NO particulate.


Just an FYI.


:laugh:

 

[Geo Hahn]

...Water will "meniscus" and NOT flow...

Geez, I never heard that word until 2 hours ago when my wife was explaining how to get an accurate reading from our rain gauge... now here it is again. How weird.

 

[Tinkerman]

I don't know about all those big new words you guys are using but I was out trying to measure a house today and on came a downpour and I'm here to tell you that it flowed REAL well!
Art, congratulations on getting it running! Job well done!

Tinkerman

 

[Guest]

As an aside: Water will NOT flow as easily as gasoline. If ya wanna test a fuel system for leaks, etc... use MILK!!!

Honestly. Milk has the same flow characteristics as gas. Water will "meniscus" and NOT flow. NO particulate.


Just an FYI.


:laugh:

What if you are lactose intolerant like me?

 

[DrEntropy]

Borrow some from th' neighbors.

 

[sp53]

That is great news Art. I felt your pain and joy that first start up proves the vice and the virtue exist simultaneously.