TR2/3/3A Trying to start engine for the first time!

[John_Progess]

I am helping a friend with a 60 TR3 trying to start a rebuilt engine which is connected to the tranny and in the frame. The engine was rebuilt 17 years ago by what many consider to be a competent British engine rebuilder. We did pull the pan before we began and everything looked good with much of the assembly lube visible. Initially we found that we could not get any oil flow and determined that the owner while installing the new rebuilt distributor failed to get the woodruff key installed in the oil pump shaft. We fixed that and now have good oil flow. After hooking up all necessary starting equipment we found that the engine is turning over VERY VERY SLOWLY using the starter! Figuring the battery was low we charged the new battery but still no luck. We now have fuel, spark but the engine is not turning over fast enough to try to start. We tried hooking it up to a running car but still no luck. We took the starter to a rebuilding shop and they said it was fine. I asked the owner who owns another 59 TR3 to use the hand crank and compare the two cars to see if they require about the same effort to turn over the engines. He said that his running 59 TR3 required much less effort to turn over than the 60 TR3(both engines had plugs installed). Could this mean we have some sort of drag in the 60 TR3 engine? The rebuilder has unfortunately passed away so we cannot ask him how he rebuilt the engine. We adjusted the valves and everything looked normal. The rebuilt tranny turns very free. We are using non detergent 30 wt. oil. Any suggestions what to look for would be appreciated. Thanks and have a good day!

John

 

[charleyf]

John,
You are likely to get a number of horror stories here. A very recent incident comes to mind. On the first startup of a totally rebuilt engine we got it started and then had excessive noise from the lower engine. Turns out that the the engine had 1) a mismatched rod end on one rod. And to make up for that the rebuilder used standard bearings on a .010 ground crankshaft. We used plastiguage to determine that the tolerances were amiss on the rod bearings. And subsequently determined about the mismatched rod end and incorrect rod bearings. I believe that the previous person had a very hard to turn engine because he had the correct .010 rod bearings in the engine and discovered that if he used standard bearings it was loose. Needless to say another rebuild later and the engine is working fine.

So you might want to check the tolerances of the lower bearings if the crankshaft does not turn with the spark plugs out.
Charley

 

[TR3driver]

A new engine will normally be stiffer than one that has been run-in; but if you can turn it with the hand crank, I would expect the starter to turn at a reasonably normal speed. Before you drop the pan again, it might be worth checking that the battery voltage is not drooping badly under load, and that most of that voltage is getting to the starter. A battery that has been stored for a long time will frequently become partially sulfated, making it act like a much smaller battery. (Ie it will take a charge, but not deliver enough current to start the engine.) And with the starter drawing 400 amps or more, all of the connections must be perfect.

Also double-check that the ground strap is in place and securely fastened. Paint does not conduct, there must be a clean metal-to-metal path through each connection.

But if the starter is getting at least 9-10 volts while cranking, then I agree with Charley, the bottom end is the next place to look. Start taking bearing caps loose and check how easily the crank turns after each one. It might be a piston binding in the bore, but bearings are more likely IMO. Another possibility is a bent crankshaft, in which case loosening either the front or center main will free it up.

On the second engine I ever rebuilt (not an LBC), a previous rebuilder had apparently way overtorqued the rod caps until the rod ends were visibly out of round. Being young and stupid (as opposed to old and stupid), I assumed it didn't matter as long as the plastigage showed the clearance was OK. That engine started and ran for about 30 minutes before throwing a rod through the block. An object lesson in not ignoring warning signs!

 

[titanic]

John-I have found that even just installing new rings will make the engine much harder to turn over. After the engine has run a few minutes, it is noticeably easier to turn. Most likely, there is no cause for concern as the rebuilder would have checked for excessive drag when the bearings and pistons were installed. It is still scary to start an engine after a rebuild, regardless of who performed the work. Also, it seems that the more we know, the more we worry. Or maybe it just increases with age.
Berry

 

[TFB]

After sitting that long I would remove plugs,soak with some lubricant,diesel fuel,ATF ,or whats handy and spin the motor with the starter a few times,let soak ,repeat.
Tom

 

[BobbyO]

I see I really have something to look forward to. The engine in my car was rebuilt about 20 years ago with the PO having done most of the work and I finished it. There was plenty of assembly lube visible when I installed a rebuilt head recently. Now I'm waiting for the carbs to come back before I will be able to attempt a start. However, while doing my electrical work I used a battery charger for a power source. At that time the started would spin but not engage the bendix. Once I installed a battery the starter engaged and the engine seemed to turn OK. Should be interesting when I actually attempt a start.

 

[TuffTR250]

I agree with TFB that you should squirt some lubricant into the cylinders to lubricate the liners and the piston rings. I recommend Marvel Mystery oil. It is thin enough to allow the pistons to move and still provide lubrication. I like it better than engine oil for something like this. Let it soak for several days, hand turning it over at least once a day. You may even need to add a bit more of Marvel Mystery oil on the 2nd or 3rd day. If and when it starts, it will smoke a lot but that's not a problem as long as it does not keep smoking once the Mystery oil is burned off.
Regards,
Bob

 

[Marvin Gruber]

I'm with Randall about a proper grd. Not only a good grd strap but check mounting of the starter to engine. Has to be a good connection. Also check connections at the push button bendix. If you try to crank again with same slow turning, carefully check all cables and connection points for heat. Any hotspot areas will indicate poor high resistance connection.

Marv

 

[Brinkerhoff]

Move the car to a heated garage or put a lighter weight oil in it. Had the same problem with mine a few years ago when it came time to start it.

 

[2liter4cyl]

Check very carefully the ground strap from the block to frame, down by the steering box. Le

 

[CJD]

17 years? Most of that assembly lube has turned to wax. That and very likely surface rust in the cylinders causing lots of friction until it starts.

 

[sp53]

New motors are often tight. I would also spin it without the plugs and some type of light oil into the spark plug hole. Plus I like the idea of a warmer shop and maybe some 10-30 or 5-30 until things loosen up more. Did you get the oil to move with a drill or by turning the motor over without the plugs? It sounds like if something was going to break like a ring it would have done it by now. So I would just it over for some time like 5 minutes on and off without the plugs. In addition, I would think you would have to check a starter the way you want to under a load.