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TR2/3/3A Tearing Down my Free TR3 Engine/Tranny

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I have spent the morning tearing down that free TR3 engine that was left in my driveway by a friend. I got the head off and doesn't seem to have any damage or cracks. A little rust in the water chambers. Is this a sleeved engine? The block seems to be ok as well. I would like to get the crank out if I can. That would tell me if it is worth rebuilding. Flywheel has good teeth on the ring gear. Still has oil in the sump. Hasn't run in 30+ years. After looking at the Moss website and seeing they want almost 3K for a head makes me think this project is worth it. If I invest the money, I will have to find a body to wrap around it.....

This is fun.


Bill
 

Tinkerman

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Yep, a sleeved engine. Best get you a TR3 factory manual before you start on anything. You can find them on eBay. I'm rebuilding one right now and they are indespensible. If you belong to the VTR or TRA they will have folks that will be willing to help get you over the rough spots. This forum is also very good but be sure to check the advice you get with the manual and other sources. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at tinkerman@citlink.net. I am in the middle of a frame off concours restoration project as we speak, so to speak. Anyhow, good luck.

Tinkerman
 

sp53

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Bill I have been checking my mail box everyday to look for that OD tyranny. Perhaps you need another stamp? Yes Bill they tear down to just about - zero. Make sure you take care with the studs in the head if you are going to pull them.

Sp53
 
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I got all the head studs out except for the two front right studs. Stubborn, I will soak them for a few days. My engine number is TR41516E. What would that have come out of. Also had the name SABRINA on the head. What's that?












April fool.
Bill
 

Alan_Myers

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Hi Bill,

Yes, that's one of the beauties of the TR engine... it's sleeved. That makes it easy to change out the pistons, liners, etc. Easy to "freshen up" and to make size changes, if you wish.

A complete kit of pistons, matching liners, rings and wrist pins is the usual way these engines are rebuilt. Some try just getting pistons/rings/wrist pins and boring the old liners to a larger size, but that's usually not cost effective because the cost of the machine work and the cost of a set with new liners works out close to the same. And the old liners might have cracks/corrosion that make them weaker or less capable of transfering heat out of the cylinder.

In all likelihood, an untouched TR3 would typically be an 83mm bore engine, giving just under 2 liters (that's so the cars would qualify for 2 liter class racing and remained an option on through TR4 at least). With TR4 and TR3"B", 86mm is the most common bore size. That gives just over 2.1 liter. A common upgrade is 87mm, which was the upper limit for racers in the U.S. in certain popular classes in the old days, giving nearly 2.2 liter. Prices on kits for all three of these sizes are roughly the same. I'd venture to guess that most folks rebuilding TR3 go ahead and increase displacement to at least 86mm and often 87mm. After all, more displacment equals more torque and horsepower, so there is little reason not to increase unless the car is being prepped for racing in a class that limits engine size.

More expensive, but possible, is 89mm bore which gives roughly 2.3 liter, in kits that will fit directly into the block without modification. A lot more expensive is up to 92mm bore, getting to around 2.4 liter. But, anything over 89mm requires machine work in the block, for the larger sleeves to fit, and that is the reason it's so expensive.

Visual inspection is just the starting point. With 40-50 year old engine parts, Magnafluxing or other forms of crack detection are a very good idea, especially the crank, conrods and head.

The weakest link in the TR 4-cylinder has to be the conrods. They are drilled and cross-drilled for oil passages and that's where they tend to break. Have a shop pay particular attention to them if you want to reuse. A good engine shop will know how to handle them and prep them. Also be sure to keep the conrods together as a set and matched with their caps. Original conrods in good condition might be considered safe for a daily driver, an engine that seldom sees more than, say, 5000 rpm. But, for higher revving engines an upgrade is probably wise.

One other common issue now is getting the head rebuilt for unleaded fuel. At least, different valves, valve seat inserts and different valve guides are needed. A mistake that seems to be made is boring the replacement valve guides to the original specifications. The new materials in the unleaded fuel guides are more prone to heat expansion than the originals, so really should be honed to be a little on the loose side, perhaps +.0015" on the intake side and +.0025" on the exhaust side. Many modern machine shops don't realize this, but if it's not done, a valve can stick and can in turn pretty quickly destroy a piston and cylinder.

A lot of folks like to install a modern rear crank seal, to help prevent leaks. There are kits available for this purpose from all the major vendors, but be aware that some machining on the crank is necessary, so a good time to prep for a modern seal is while the crank is being reconditioned.

Overall, the TR 4-cylinder is a strong engine and easy to work on. I suggest you consult the factory manual and perhaps some books like Roger Williams "Restoring TR2-4A" and/or Kas Kastner's "TR4/4A Tuning Manual" for lots of useful detail and ideas where the TRactor motor can be improved relatively easily, if you wish. Many of the ideas in both those books take advantage of modern technology and other tuning techniques to build a good perforiming, stronger, more leak- and care-free motor... or a real screamer, if you wish and budget allows! Another good source of info is TeriAnn Wakeman's TR3 restoration website. She details a lot of what was done to her car, including engine work by well-known TR tuner Greg Solow, who is also interviewed for Kas' latest book. TeriAnn's website is https://www.tjwakeman.net/TR/index.htm

Have fun!
 

Geo Hahn

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[ QUOTE ]
...My engine number is TR41516E. What would that have come out of...

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that's TS41516E it would be out of a 59 TR3A built in early 59 or maybe late 58.

Would originally have had the press-on flywheel that takes the early 'bomb' starter.

Yes, I saw those $3K heads in the catalog. Given that you can rebuild one for a few hundred in parts and machine shop work that price tag is hard to take.

These things are incredibly robust so a fairly simple rebuild should yield a fine engine... now to find a car to attach to it.
 

sp53

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Bill have you seen the pictures of the tr3 body in the classified section of the forum. Judging from the pictures, that is some mighty fine sheet metal with parts.
sp53
 

sp53

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Bill I am not really sure you need to take out the studs. However, it does make things a little easier, cleaning and such. I took them out on this last rebuild by using a pipe wrench down close to the block. Be careful not to damage the block surface. I started too but caught myself and used a piece of heavy leather on the block surface. In addition, I usually rack them tight and loose, letting the stud cool off for a few minutes and only moving them perhaps a 1/16. Patients or penitents
sp53
 

Banjo

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[ QUOTE ]
Also had the name SABRINA on the head. What's that?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ya bout gave me a heart attack. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
ya goof! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
Sounds good, hope it drives you to get a TR3 hehehehehhe
 

michalotti_tr

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your engine looked like this?
sabrina2.jpg
 

michalotti_tr

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Oops, sorry - wrong Sabrina: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

sabrina.jpg
 

Andy Blackley

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Re: Real Sabrina.
To paraphrase "A Christmas Story": "You'll put yer eye out with them things, kid". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

michalotti_tr

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif Ain't that the truth!
 

trfourtune

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i think you need a trs or an italia to go with that motor. personallhy i'd want to get a titanium frame, aluminum alloy tub and alloy body work in tr4 or 4a.
rob
 
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