steering box-question on rebuild

[Hawkscoach]

guys, I opened up the steering box and cleaned the inside, cleaned the shaft, etc. I also replaced the 6 washers (over 10 bucks each from Moss!). this made the steering tighter. I also purchased the oil seal and the bushing that is on the lever side. My question: How do I get the seal and bushing out? or should I not fool with it? Also, the car is a late 59 BN4 and the box clearly is this (Late BN4/BN6, BN7, BT7, BJ7, BJ8) from Moss. However, the seal is that as thick as the one currently installed. I figure that while I am at this stage, I should take care of anything that needs replacing. Thanks again. Doug

 

[steveg]

Doug,
You don't say if it was leaking. If not and if the shaft has very little play, no need to re-bush. Folks are using two of the new-style thin seals in place of the old thick one.

Note if you re-bush you'll have to ream or hone the bush to size.

The seal you should be able to lever out with a big screwdriver.

Since you probably have the unit on the bench, this is a good time to adjust the steering.

 

[Hawkscoach]

Thanks Steve! I don't know if it was leaking because I removed this a few years ago when I started a complete restoration on this car. Everything was such a mess that I cleaned it primed and painted it after removing the fluid. I would like to at least replace the seal and the gaskets. I did replace the washers and after cleaning all the gunk up, it seems to be smooth. I don't want to put new fluid in and then discover leaks........... If I don't have to replace the bushing that would be great, I will just double up the thin-style seal and move on.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Got to admit I don't get the 'double seal' theory. Using two seals doesn't double the effectiveness; if the first (top) seal leaks, you're still down to one seal (or, if the bottom seal doesn't, but the top does, you don't have a leak but you don't have a 'backup' either). Does anyone know of another application where two seals are used, as designed? I do understand that because some of the available seals are thinner than original the two sort of bolster each other, but I think you're better off with a single, 'original style' seal (I also understand that using two seals may help avoid a groove in the shaft, but a machine shop could spray weld and grind the shaft). I got an original seal years ago from Hemphill's--in fact, I bought two--and have to believe someone (BCS?) should have the original seal.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Got to admit I don't get the 'double seal' theory. Using two seals doesn't double the effectiveness; if the first (top) seal leaks, you're still down to one seal (or, if the bottom seal doesn't, but the top does, you don't have a leak but you don't have a 'backup' either). Does anyone know of another application where two seals are used, as designed? I do understand that because some of the available seals are thinner than original the two sort of bolster each other, but I think you're better off with a single, 'original style' seal (I also understand that using two seals may help avoid a groove in the shaft, but a machine shop could spray weld and grind the shaft). I got an original seal years ago from Hemphill's--in fact, I bought two--and have to believe someone (BCS?) should have the original seal.

I was sold the two seal replacement set a year ago because I was told the single seal was no longer available and they were the "fix". Guess what's leaking with zero miles on it?

 

[Hawkscoach]

ok, now I am worried. The seal that I got from Moss is not as thick (by about half) as the seal that is currently installed. Patrick, did you get the "two seal replacement set" from Moss? It seems every component I try to rebuild and get back on this car comes with an issue that stops me...........I did get good news this morning that my radiator and heater core past the pressure test so now I will move to the heater while I sort this out. Thanks Doug

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

ok, now I am worried. The seal that I got from Moss is not as thick (by about half) as the seal that is currently installed. Patrick, did you get the "two seal replacement set" from Moss? It seems every component I try to rebuild and get back on this car comes with an issue that stops me...........I did get good news this morning that my radiator and heater core past the pressure test so now I will move to the heater while I sort this out. Thanks Doug

I got the two thin seals from BCS, however, I called them and told them the problem and they sent me a single seal which I assume is correct per the original. I haven't opened the box yet. I've been advised to drive the car around to let the seal sink in or bed in. I'm still a few months away from the car being able to be street ready.

 

[57_BN4]

As noted, if one seal leaks then two will also leak. There is no garter spring in those tiny seals so they cannot tolerate any lateral movement at all.

A leak free steering box can be achieved with attention to the following points:
*The shaft must be tight in the bush to the point of being slightly stiff. If the shaft drops through under it's own weight then it is too loose.
*The shaft must be polished and free from corrosion pits and other damage where the seal runs
*The seal must be tight in the housing and the housing must not be deformed
*The lubricant should be replaced with a well known brand of steering box lube specially designed to overcome this exact problem.

If all the above are ok then it won't leak... much

Also worth noting that the tiny replacement seal is generic and available at any bearing/seal supply store for about a dollar.

Andy.

 

[steveg]

I rebuilt mine several years ago. My bushing was worn but the shaft was OK. Replaced the bushing and honed to size using a new brake hone. It took about a half-hour of honing. Am using STP in box and 2 seals. Steering is accurate and no leakage.

As a side note: the other day on Devcon's site I saw a titanium epoxy putty product they sell which is made to fix problems with sealing shafts, among other things. Am thinking this product could be used to dress up any sealing-wear grooves. See: https://youtu.be/88Dkwn09fpo