Ring and pinion question

[bdcvg]

I have 4000 miles on a brand new Lempert 3.545 gar set. The whole rear end was rebuilt. It seems loud to Me , I don't remember it being this loud but the car sat idle for 5 years. I have not changed the fluid yet but will go the redline route before spring. Should it be that noticeable soundwise?

 

[Healey Nut]

Who rebuilt the rear differential . If the backlash wasn't set correctly then it will be noisy and will wear prematurely . I would be dropping the oil and seeing what's in it and then decide where to go from there .
I changed my own gear sets over to 3.54 and there was no change in noise .

 

[bdcvg]

The work was done during a full resto at Four in Tune so I trust the work. I'll drain it and look for too much metal maybe?

 

[steveg]

I had my first-edition Lempert 3.54 gears installed by a rear-axle shop. They never made any noise at all. The guy there said the Healey was just like a Chevy full-floating.

Four in Tune's supplier probably got it wrong.
You can pull the axle shafts and remove the pumpkin to have it looked at.

 

[Healey Nut]

I had my first-edition Lempert 3.54 gears installed by a rear-axle shop. They never made any noise at all. The guy there said the Healey was just like a Chevy full-floating.

Four in Tune's supplier probably got it wrong.
You can pull the axle shafts and remove the pumpkin to have it looked at.

With 4000 miles since it was done .....the damage may be already done ????

 

[BJ8Healeys]

"Noisy" is subjective (see the red rectangle in page 3 of the attachments). I bought a 3.54 gear set from Mike Lempert's first production run in 2002 and had it set up by a shop in Florida that Mike recommended (Alan's GearWorks). When I got the pumpkin back, it came with break-in procedures from both Alan's and the manufacturer (U.S. Gear Corp.) that are critical to good performance. I followed the break-in instructions exactly and have never had a problem with the 3.54 gears in 71K miles, although I do believe they are a bit noisier than the original 3.909 gears with the top up. But the noise is not objectionable and is not noticeable to me with the top down, except when passing something reflective like a semi or a bridge railing. I agree with the recommendation to drain the oil and inspect it for anything that appears abnormal (metal particles, burned smell, etc.).

 

[bdcvg]

The break in driving Tom executed before He shipped the car to Me was very close to the described procedure. Maybe I just don't remember the volume correctly. I will swap fluid next week anyway and examine for metal.

 

[vette]

I guess I'll tell my story even tho I don't want to put any blame on anyone. Things happen. I bought a set of 3:54 gears from Dennis Welsh about 5 years ago and they were installed by a local guy who is retired from NASCAR who set up rear end gears for many of the race teams. Those gears were terrible and I immediately when back to him an said I can't live with that amount of noise. He took the pumpkin back and spent about 3 hours reshiming the gears and called me and said they were still noisy. I e-mailed Dennis Welsh and they wanted me to send the pumpkin to them across the pond. I wasn't willing to do that so I was on my own. I then bought a set from Mike Lempert's second batch. I had them installed by a different fellow who drag races in one of the sportsman series and set up his and many other's rear gears. This set is what I now have been running for the last two summers. About 4000 miles. This set is louder than the original 3:90 gears but it is not objectionable to me. With the top down I don't hear them at all. With the top up there is a noticeable whine but it does not interfere with conversation. And if I am running the rpms where the exhaust note is at its loudest, I can't here the gears at all. I think it is hard for individual shops to get the set up as good as the factory originals. Since no shop that I know of has the original set-up gauges they all have to rely on reading the pattern and each installer will be different. But also there is no doubt to me that some gears are better than others. I think your choices are, if it is not too objectionable just run them. If you really can't live with the sound, as I felt about the 1st set I bought from DW, then your only option is to keep buying gears and using different installers till you like what you get. I would drain the oil and inspect it. Pull the gear pumpkin and check set-up clearances. Backlash on the ring gear must be within specification and should be checked on about 3 or 4 teeth locations. Then too there must be no play in the pinion bearing. (one thing that has happened to the best installers is that the pinion bearing spacer may not have seated flat when the pinion nut was torqued up. then with some miles driven the spacer will shift and land flat, then there is play in the bearing and the ring&pinion mesh is wrong. ) Also you can "run the pattern" again. Just clean the oil off the ring & pinion teeth and apply patterning paste, then turn the ring gear while holding the pinion yoke with a rag so as to induce alittle resistance to the turning, you will see the teeth pattern in the paste. Studing this subject on Youtube will make you an expert in "reading the pattern". There are web sights that will give you a chart as well. I am running the same type of conventional, natural gear lube that the factory originally used. 80/90w gear lube and I am happy with it.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I got a set of Lemperts from the first batch ($200). My dad and I installed them; I think there's 50-60K on them. They are noisier than the original--especially on deceleration--but I had them out once and the wear pattern was nominal.

FWIW, my Mustang GT with a 3.71 8.5 inch (I think) diff whines. Dad said it was a common customer complaint on Mustangs from day one (how's that for honoring heritage?).

 

[BoyRacer]

I had a set of Lempert gears installed in a diff last year by an outfit that specializes in rear ends here in Portland. The guy told me all about the break-in procedure. I seem to recall that he told me I should change the oil after a short time....... I think he said 500 miles. Did anyone else get that kind of advise?

 

[steveg]

I had a set of Lempert gears installed in a diff last year by an outfit that specializes in rear ends here in Portland. The guy told me all about the break-in procedure. I seem to recall that he told me I should change the oil after a short time....... I think he said 500 miles. Did anyone else get that kind of advise?

I'm sure I did.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

I had a set of Lempert gears installed in a diff last year by an outfit that specializes in rear ends here in Portland. The guy told me all about the break-in procedure. I seem to recall that he told me I should change the oil after a short time....... I think he said 500 miles. Did anyone else get that kind of advise?

Think it came with the Lempert set I bought: https://www.britishcarforum.com/bcf/showthread.php?103801-It-wasn-t-the-Pertronix&p=1000974&viewfull=1#post1000974

I said you could install synthetic fluid and 'forget about it for 100K miles,' but you should check the level occasionally. If the housing isn't leaking that could be your first indication of a leak at the hub(s).

 

[vette]

The guy told me all about the break-in procedure. I seem to recall that he told me I should change the oil after a short time....... I think he said 500 miles. Did anyone else get that kind of advise?

I think that is good advise but I believe most don't follow it. My installers said just run 'em. Here's a thought, how many OEM cars, no matter how far back you can remember, got their rear gear oil changed after you drove it off the lot?

 

[Randy Forbes]

I think that is good advise but I believe most don't follow it. My installers said just run 'em. Here's a thought, how many OEM cars, no matter how far back you can remember, got their rear gear oil changed after you drove it off the lot?

I was surprised, when we bought our 2001 M Rdstr, that there was a 1200 mile service to change the engine oil and differential fluid. There was actually more emphasis that the differential fluid be changed promptly at that interval than the engine oil (the S-54 aka 2000 M3 engine already had enough controversy surrounding the oil in that one...). These were also included in the "free" three (3) year maintenance plan, adding to the surprise.

To compare, the only other cars bought new were a 1973 MGB with included a free 1000 engine oil service, including retorque of the head studs and valve adjust (this was actually performed at 1300 miles, because I took delivery on the Friday of Labor Day weekend, and the dealer wasn't open until the following Tuesday__c'mon, I was eighteen years old!). Also 2002 and 2005 BMW X5s, a 2008 535xi and a 2011 X5 (both of these with turbocharged engines) that had zero break-in services offered, though I did 1000 mile engine oil changes on all of them.

But you're right, a thing of the past.

 

[HealeyRick]

I followed the same break-in procedures on my Lempert gears, but think of the millions of cars soldiering around that never had a diff oil change that have never had a problem. I'm surprised that places like Jiffy Lube don't make a big deal out of it when the "tech" comes out with that long face and says, "Sir, there's a few things I'd like to show you about your car." Seems like an easy money maker for them. And I wonder whether change recommendations in new cars are more related to the clutches in traction-lock diffs than the gearsets?

 

[vette]

I do believe that if we are seeing any increase in a recommendation to change rear gear oil on "Newer" model cars, it is because of the newer technology being employed (tolerances, materials, etc.) with some of the newer cars. I have a 2008 Nissan Pathfinder that I bought new and the rear gears in it have whined on deceleration ever since I bought it. My Nissan mechanic, who coincidentally is named 'Dana' has told me that the rear gears in this and the Titan pick-up truck are Dana Gears. But they are not as robust as what we remember of the vintage Dana Gears. When I also owned a Titan pick-up, he had told me that if I did a lot of towing that I should change the rear gear oil on at least some periodic cycle as well as keep in mind to not over heat the gears.

 

[Healey Nut]

Just a thought but how many of those new Healey owners when they drove of the lot in there shiny new Healeys way back when we're thinking ...." Take it easy now I need to remember about the rear end gear break in procedure"

 

[Bob_Spidell]

Here's the instructions that came with my Lempert gear set:



Don't know where I got the '500 miles' fluid change; probably heard it somewhere. I don't think there will be much swarf from the breakin, but the oil might be degraded from heat and shear.

 

[HealeyRick]

Just a thought but how many of those new Healey owners when they drove of the lot in there shiny new Healeys way back when we're thinking ...." Take it easy now I need to remember about the rear end gear break in procedure"

Just checked my BJ7 Driver's Handbook. Under instructions for running in it advised not to exceed 45 mph for the first 500 miles. Only mention of changing diff fluid was at 6000 miles along with gearbox.

 

[Healey Nut]

Just checked my BJ7 Driver's Handbook. Under instructions for running in it advised not to exceed 45 mph for the first 500 miles. Only mention of changing diff fluid was at 6000 miles along with gearbox.

But did the new drivers/owners actually read that stuff ?

45mph .....good luck with that !!!!