Reproduction Parts Revisited

[DougF]

Well, I just spent 2 hours along side I79 in fairly heavy traffic waiting for a flatbed. Partially my fault because the first truck that responded had an idiot behind the wheel and I refused his service. Everyone of you probably would have done the same.
Anyway, a year and a half ago I installed a new water pump which was purchased from a company located in a midwestern rectangular state whose name will go unmentioned. Tonight, the shaft holding the pulley sheared. Now this shaft must be 9/16" thick. The belt was not too tight. If it was, the water pump and alternator bearings would have gone away.
This is one heck of a lot of steel to break.
Fortunately the pulley didn't fly into the hood or radiator.
But I still have a lot of paint repair in my future.
I AM ABSOLUTELY FED UP WITH THE TRASH THAT SOME OF THESE COMPANIES PAWN OFF AS PARTS.
This defies discription with my vocabulary without resorting to words that would get this entry deleted. When I call to complain on Monday, I'm certain that it will fall on deaf ears. I definitely don't want them to replace the part.
The best I can do is notify everyone on the Forum so you hopefully won't have the same problem.

 

[Brosky]

Sorry to hear about your problem. I replaced my water pump from a western PA outlet about two years ago, so maybe I'll take a look see under the hood. I think that I bought a heavy duty version?? I can't remember specifically what I've bought on certain items and I REFUSE to look at my invoices unless something is defective and I need to do a warranty return, which is very rare.

Not that I'll be able to see much of what could end up failing, but it's a good excuse to go out to the garage at 11:00PM, on a warm summer night.

 

[PeterK]

I totally agree and sorry to hear about your plight. We had a discussion about quality parts recently and this is just one example of what can happen to any of us.

 

[Guest]

Doug, you are in western Pennsylvania and so is TRF. Why go all the way to where Dorothy lives for parts. You should know better. TRF tries awfully hard to duplicate or beat the quality of OE parts, and will tell you if something they offer just doesn't measure up. Moss is a close second in this area of honesty. I like Ted Schumacher for parts as well. He is an engine builder and will tell you when something isn't up to snuff. (TSI-Automotive) Ted has a close working relationship both with Moss and TRF.

Sorry for your misfortune. Try running your new pump in dry before the install. And don't forget to install it with the hole down.

 

[Tinster]

Now you guys are scaring me again. I am about to
order a new water pump since the Crypt Car still
has DPO Pedro's in it. We all know it will fail shortly.

I only purchase from TRF or Moss.

Bill what do you mean "run the pump in dry before install"?

Man Doug, I feel for you guy. I've stood beside my own
broken down TR6 more hours than I've ridden inside of it.

Good luck,

d

 

[Guest]

Now you guys are scaring me again. I am about to
order a new water pump since the Crypt Car still
has DPO Pedro's in it. We all know it will fail shortly.

I only purchase from TRF or Moss.

Bill what do you mean "run the pump in dry before install"?

Man Doug, I feel for you guy. I've stood beside my own
broken down TR6 more hours than I've ridden inside of it.

Good luck,

d

A few spins of a installed pump some say will help seat the bearings. I did it by turning the crank without coolant for a few spins. Actually got the car to turn over, let it run for a few seconds and shut down, all before adding coolant. Now, understand, just a few seconds.

 

[DougF]

This water pump was purchased from them for a reason. I don't remember exactly what it was. I believe a friend was placing an order and I threw it in his direction to help him make free freight or something. Or maybe due to a B/O.
I buy nearly everything from TRF. I'll throw something in Moss's direction periodically to keep my customer status current.
I agree with you Bill on the quality from TRF. That, and I'm in the Indiana, PA area every week so dropping into Armaugh is not out of the question.
Fortunately I have a backup pump and will be back on the road later this AM.

 

[achtungeveryone]

Doug, thanks for passing this on. I'll be careful where I get a waterpump, mine can only keep on keeping on for so long.

 

[70herald]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]

A few spins of a installed pump some say will help seat the bearings. [/QUOTE]

And this was true back in the days that water pumps used carbon seals. They aren't built that way any more. So, unless you are using a rebuilt old fashioned style WP (which probably has a REAL grease nipple, giving it a spin is not going to do anything positive.

 

[martx-5]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]

A few spins of a installed pump some say will help seat the bearings.

And this was true back in the days that water pumps used carbon seals. They aren't built that way any more. So, unless you are using a rebuilt old fashioned style WP (which probably has a REAL grease nipple, giving it a spin is not going to do anything positive. [/QUOTE]

This is very true. Let's squash this urban myth once and for all. There is NO REASON to run a water pump dry. I used to work for an outfit that rebuilt waterpumps, and carbon seals were pretty much history by the early fifties. From then on, all seals were phenolic, including those in the TR's. I've had TR3 pumps apart (with the seperate greasable bearings), and they had phenolic seals in them.

And while were on the topic of water pumps, another myth to crush is that of adding water pump lube. There was a time when water pumps for cars had packing around the shafts that had a controlled leak to help lubricate the seal so it wouldn't burn out. The water pump lube allowed the the packing to be tightened up a bit to further control the amount of leakage. Those type of pumps disappeared in the forties.

 

[DrEntropy]

This is very true. Let's squash this urban myth once and for all. There is NO REASON to run a water pump dry. I used to work for an outfit that rebuilt waterpumps, and carbon seals were pretty much history by the early fifties. From then on, all seals were phenolic, including those in the TR's. I've had TR3 pumps apart (with the seperate greasable bearings), and they had phenolic seals in them.

You TR guys are soo modern! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

The waterpumps in the Lotus T/C engines were a Ford "kit" for the most part. They DO have a sealed bearing/shaft but the seal is a carbon one. The last kit I received also had a carbon face. There have been some good engineering mods done recently to allow changing them to a more contemporary setup but it involves cobbing the aluminum timing chest cover to accommodate... Purists cringe.

 

[DougF]

I'm back on the road.
I compared my backup unit to the broken one. The one thing that I found that probably caused the problem is that the backup unit pulley had been balanced while the made in India unit hadn't.
If you are interested in seeing if yours is balanced, look for the drill marks on the engine side of your pulley.
Oh, by the way, the name on the box is County. I believe this manufacturer is being used by several of our suppliers.

 

[tomshobby]

I'm back on the road.
I compared my backup unit to the broken one. The one thing that I found that probably caused the problem is that the backup unit pulley had been balanced while the made in India unit hadn't.
If you are interested in seeing if yours is balanced, look for the drill marks on the engine side of your pulley.
Oh, by the way, the name on the box is County. I believe this manufacturer is being used by several of our suppliers.

I am getting angrier by the minute. I just finished sending an e-mail because of a quality issue with some parts I received last week. Now this! Another of the items I received was a water pump in a "County" box and I now see the pulley was not balanced on mine either. I do not see any markings as to country of origin, apparently ashamed to put it on, so how can I identify it? I am really thinking that I will be better off just putting my old one back on since I was only replacing it because of a rebuild anyway.

 

[DougF]

The County box to my water pump had England in small print. The label from the supplier had India on it.

 

[NickMorgan]

What annoys me is that these repro parts for Triumphs are actually very cheap by comparison to parts for modern cars (Well, at least by comparison to the prices for parts in Europe). I would happily pay more for a better quality part that I knew I would not have to replace again soon and that wouldn't leave me stranded by the road side.

 

[tomshobby]

I took my old pump apart and there is rust from the bearing. I will probably have to use the questionable pump but am considering changing pulleys and in the meantime am looking for replacement bearing/shaft and seal to rebuild my old one.

Contrary to what I have read, mine was simple to take apart and I see no problem in the reassembly. That is if I can find parts.

 

[BryanC]

I would happily pay more for a better quality part that I knew I would not have to replace again soon and that wouldn't leave me stranded by the road side.

I think the problem is that it is often diffcult for the buyer to determine quality based on a picture in a catalogue - or even with the part in hand. So, folks end up buying the part that is 50 cents cheaper. That pushes the retailers to buy from the cheapest suppliers they can find. The quality manufacturers go broke and only the cheap, poor quality suppliers remain.

So, any idea how we get ourselves out of this sorry state of affairs?

Bryan

 

[PeterK]

For us TR3-4A owners, I purchased my water pumps here :
https://www.classicgarage.com/trtrtrtr4trw.html

These are AE QUALITY PARTS made in the UK.

They also sell TR6 but you'd have to call and ask who makes them.

 

[angelfj1]

I'm not defending lbc parts suppliers, but this is all about supply and demand. I am not certain, but I doubt if the combined production of Triumph sports cars reached 1 million units. Do you have any idea how many cars a company like Honda produces in 1 month? In N. America alone it's like 100,000 cars per month. The people who supply our parts are in a difficult position. How many water pumps could the entire Triumph enthusiast hobby demand in a typical year? So, TRF, Moss, etc need to find someone that would produce a relatively low volume of units for an affordable price and make a profit. That's not a favorable combination of factors. Answer = China, Taiwan, Poland, India, and other countries with at best variable quality control. I think we have a choice. Those that demand higher quality need to send a message to these suppliers that they should offer better quality and that the enthusiasts would be willing to pay for this. Also, when you buy something that ends up being a piece of crap, let them know you don't appreciate it.

 

[PeterK]

I think no matter what we say to the vendors, demanding better quality of parts, it's all going to boil down to the bottom line. Not many things in this world (sadly) that you can't say it's all about money. Very unfortunate but everyone wants to make a buck and cheap production cost means more profit, even for the best intentioned vendor.

I buy spares when I find good ones, and re-manufacture many used parts. NOS parts are good but the supplies are dwindling rapidly. Even the availability of good used spares is drying up.

At best we can stand up and say NO MORE JUNK! But the bottom line is the bottom line nevertheless, and it always comes back to profits. So if you don't like a part, SEND IT BACK and tell them why.