TR2/3/3A Noisy Lifter

[JFS]

Although I haven't put a lot of miles on the TR3 during the last few seasons, I have been driving it with a noisy lifter. I thought the clicking to be caused by what I had remembered to be a loose push rod tip. I removed the rocker arm assembly today and found the push rods to be good, but the clicking could be replicated in one tube by moving the pushrod/lifter combination up and down against the camshaft. The other seven were quiet when tapped against the cam. Previous compression and leak down test were good. The lifter most likely will need to be replaced and the camshaft reground. Question is, do I continue driving it or do I park it until I have the time to fix it?

 

[TR3driver]

I would certainly keep driving it. I'm not even convinced you found anything more than one lifter that is stuck to the end of the pushrod (so the lifter comes up when you lift the pushrod). Happens sometimes when sludge builds up in the bottom of the lifter. The sludge creates enough suction between the push rod end & lifter to pull it up. Can be a problem sometimes when you remove the pushrods (trying to get the lifter back into the hole without removing the head is interesting to say the least), but doesn't seem to be any worse than that.

Also worth looking at the tip of the rocker arm. Sometimes they wear into a U shape that can result in setting the valve lash too high (which will definitely cause noise). And a certain amount of noise is normal anyway.

 

[JFS]

Thanks for the reply, Randal. I can separate the lifter to remove the pushrod after a bit of twisting and jiggling. The rockers are roller rockers which spin, so no U wear. I am concerned about wear on the cam lobe and lifter, but I don't want to pull the head at this time to find out.

 

[CJD]

You can put a dial indicator on the rocker and check the cam lift.

 

[JFS]

Thanks, John. I'll measure the lifts today.

 

[CJD]

Also, just sitting here thinking, if you do have a lot of wear in the lifter/cam, it would have been noticeable as that rocker would have needed a lot of adjustment recently to compensate for the excessive wear. The TR3 has such mild springs that I would think it unlikely that you flattened a cam lobe. But, it is always possible. A sign is to look at your oil and see if it has a "metalic" look to it. If it does, I'd park it until you can get the cam replaced. If the oil is clean, then I think it more likely that something else is happening, like excess clearance for some reason.

 

[JFS]

Bad news. Took me awhile to make a flat plate to hold the dial indicator base. The lift of the noisy valve measures .183 less than the average of the others. Looks like a cam grind and new lifters.

When multiplying the rocker ratio and cam lift to figure calculated lift, is the actual lift @ cam used or lift @ .050? Or am I getting it confused with determing duration?

Hope it doesn't get too cold too soon. I have an electric heat source in my garage, but little insulation.

 

[TR3driver]

My understanding is that the .050" is for duration, not lift. However, lift can be given as either gross or net (gross minus lash).

Nice diagram and explanation of terms at https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/CamBasics.html

FWIW I drove my previous TR3 engine (in the 3A) for a long time with at least one lobe that short. It loses top end power, but doesn't really make much difference to normal driving below 4000 rpm or so. Of course, the problem may suddenly get worse and shed bits of hardened cam lobe or lifter into the oil, but that didn't happen to me and I figured it wouldn't be a catastrophe if it did. My plan was to build another engine anyway, just never found that particular round tuit. Come to that, I still haven't

Also FWIW, I use one of these for garage heat https://www.harborfreight.com/15000-btu-tank-top-propane-heater-67857.html
I like it because a lot of the heat comes out as radiant heat, so I feel warm right away (as long as the heat is shining on me). And it's easy to position the tank to where you're working.
They also have a 2 head version with twice the heat.

 

[JFS]

Thanks, Randall. The cam site is great. Unfortunately, it confirms that all my actual lift measurements are less than calculated lift, .06 less. The noisy lifter .183 less. I want to keep this engine so I'll do a second leak down test to double check rings and pull the sump to see if I need to pull the engine instead of just the head.

I also have a Harbor Freight radiant heater to supplement my electric heater. Wisconsin winters, you know. Builds rugged gearheads.

 

[CJD]

Sorry to hear about the bad lobe. When you finally pull the cam and lifters, be sure to note how the lubrication looks in that area. It's likely just an anomaly, but you should ensure that it was not a lubrication issue, like, say, an oil passage that is blocked.

 

[Got_All_4]

Not trying to hijack this tread but I got a weird noise in TR3 engine too. At idle there is a hollow creaking noise. At first I thought it was the timing chain tensioner as most of the sound deadening had come off so I sprayed more on it and didn't help. Next I was going to loosing the fan belt to see if it was coming from the generator or water pump. Water pump is brand new this summer. Does sound like it's coming from the front of the engine.
Going to start getting really cold around here but would trade Randal some of that Southern California weather for a better Ohio turbo heater then a HF.

 

[CJD]

If it is a new water pump, many of the later repo pumps have a boss that rubs on the inside of the pulley. Mine did it worse when it was cold. If I sprayed oil it would go away, for a while.

 

[sp53]

Forgive my rudimentary engine know how, but I have set one know problem valve/lifter at say hot or warm @.04 or .05 or even .02 to shut up a known lifter noise, and it did not seem to hurt anything. I was younger then and chancier.

 

[JFS]

I am not familiar with setting TR engines hot or warm; all specs I have found in manuals and cam grinders' enclosures specify cold measurements in the areas of .008 - .014. I have heard of inserting a feeler gauge in a running engine to determine whether it will quiet down the suspected lifter. My TR3 has a performance cam and I set the lash according to the grinder's specs. Tighter tolerances could likely cause burned valves and increased cam/lifter wear. Larger tolerances increase noise at the least. As mentioned by Randall, rocker wear can fool a feeler gauge (except for a roller rocker which does not use a flat surface to contact the valve), resulting in a larger gap than indicated by the feeler. Some try to err on too loose rather than too tight. Hope this is a ball-park response.

 

[Got_All_4]

I'm going to try the oil shot this weekend. It is loader now that there is a new pump in there.