How to tell what year your Healey is?

[mrdibbles]

Hey Guys-
I have a <span style="text-decoration: underline">1960</span> Austin Healey 3000. I know this because I <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">believe</span></span> I do. I also know this because my BMIHT Certificate says I do!

My BMIHT Certificate says my car was built over a two day period in September 1960. Specifically on the 6th and 7th. How they built this car so fast is another discussion altogether. It takes me two days to replace the water pump :crazy:

Seriously though here's my dilemma. I know I am about to wage "war" with the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles. Why you ask? Well ever since my Dad bought this car, back in 1975 or '76, it's been registered as a 1961. In California, where I lived until somewhat recently (where it was also registered as a 1961), this was never a problem. Under the California YOM (Year of Manufacture) rules, for assigning vintage license plates to your car, this was no big deal. In CA all license plates from 1956 through 1962 are visually the same. So... I got the plates I wanted. In Texas the plates, during this same period, the plates are stamped with the specific year. So a 1960 license plate says <span style="font-weight: bold">Texas 60</span>. Plus in 1961 they went from black plates to white plates... as they are to this day. I want the black.

Anyway I have done what I normally do and that is I have already jumped in and committed myself. I already bought, at great expense, a NOS set of 1960 Texas license plates. I am armed with my BMIHT Certificate and once or twice in my history I have persuaded people to believe in me. But I am concerned. Texas is Texas. They do not play games in the Texas Department of Transportation and I need them to change my Texas Title to read 1960 not 1961.

So here's my question... are there any other proof sources, such as Vin Decoders online or other, that I can use to provide additional "proof" that my car was manufactured in 1960. The more information I have the better.
Thanks!
Matt-

For those wanting the link to BMIHT here it is:
https://archive.heritage-motor-centre.co.uk/exhibitions_heritage_certificates.html

 

[Randy Forbes]

I'm sure you've already heard this, but a car manufactured in the last quarter of 1960 could easily have not been sold and titled until after the begining of the following year. Very easy to see how your 1960 Healey became titled as a 1961.

A significantly harder situation to explain, and make believable, is how my BN6, manufactured in May 1958 came to be titled in California as a 1957 model.

Choosing my battles wisely, in the thirty (30) years I've owned this car, I haven't tried to change the title year. I found these on E-bay:

 

[mrdibbles]

Yeah that would make sense. But... it's a YOM (Year of Manufacture) clause not year of sale thing. I would play it the way it is if I wanted the 1961 plates but they aren't (to me) as appealing as the black ones. So I am trying for 1960. I just need as much supporting evidence that I can find to support my BMIHT that it was made in 1960. So... if there are other tools, other than BMIHT, I'd appreciate any pointers to them. You know such as Vin Decoders, Vin ranges per year, or registries those would all help.

BTW... What kind of exhaust do you have there Randy? I like that. I dream often of finding an NOS Abarth for my 3000. I have spoken with Al Costentino himself, an Abarth demi-god, and even he didn't have one in his "Warehouse of Wonders".

 

[Randy Forbes]

Well, good luck. I think the Manufacturer's Document would be convincing enough, but I know firsthand how frustrating dealing with (any) DMV can be.

That's a Monza exhaust, sourced from Victoria British. ABout as close to an Abarth as you can get nowadays. Stebro also made nice exhausts for Healeys (including a side outlet one) but I'm not sure if they're still around either.

I can remember buying Abarth exhausts for my MGBs back in the 70s; they were under $100.00 back then.

 

[Dave Russell]

According to BMIHT records, CBN7/10876 was built in the last of June 1960. August 1960 shows Engine E29D/20598. December 1960 shows C13531.

As has been said, it was common practice for cars built during the last quarter but not yet sold to be registered in the following year as next year model & thus manufacture. Very hard to get the authorities to vary from this convention.

The later last years model could have well have not been shipped to the USA until the following year. Or possibly held in dealers inventory until the next year. The dealer cannot register the car until it is sold so what else is he to do.

I have known of Triumph motorcycles that were held in dealer inventory for two years. A 1968 built model could well be sold in 1970 as a 1970 model. It is brand new at the time of sale, regardless of when it was actually built.

Now days 2002 cars that are still in stock when 2003 arrives are sold as last years models for a discount. This was not always the case.

You can see the nightmare & confusion of the regulatory agencies trying to title a car to the exact date that it was actually built.

I wish you luck in getting the car year changed. Sometimes understanding officials will help you. The only real "proof" you have is the BMIHT certificate which sometimes carries weight, sometimes not. It is pretty much a judgement call on the part of the officials.

Actually many folks now days are very happy to get a car built in 2007 actually registered & titled as a 2008. A year's less depreciation.
Dave

 

[gblawson]

The majority of MGTD's brought into various 'States' (only some) were registered with their 'engine' number...the 'XPAG/TD2/xxxxxxx had more numbers and slashes and letters so looked 'better' to the DMV person... After an engine change and being registered in the 'next year' as well, changing to the chassis number can be quite daunting!!!
When I got YOM plates and had the ownership changed over, the person behind the counter made me 'promise' to have the (VIN) chassis number 'engraved' in the dash(scuttle) right behind the windshield.... I of course 'promised'!!!!!!

 

[Silverghost]

Your foundation here can be your Heritage Certificate. Now start examining the components of your car. Windshield wiper motor, dizzy body, horns, etc. These parts very likely have a month/year stamped in them - I know my Mini does. These parts would have been pulled at the time of manufacture and will be closer to the build date. Take pictures showing these markings. This should further support what you are trying to show. Then find as many documents as you can to demonstrate the practice of registering the year of sale vs the year of manufacture, etc. Letters from national/international clubs, restoration shops, etc., print this thread and include it. Now take this collection to your local DMV on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday as these days are your best chances of catching someone in a receptive mood. Then be overly nice to the person helping you and ask kindly for their help. This usually but not always can sway things in your favor. Most of the time DMV staff get yelled at, argued with, etc. No guarantees but why not try it. Also, try to be there when they open, be first in line.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Also, try to be there when they open, be first in line.

...and bring donuts! :thumbsup:

Seriously, great tips, Peter. "Dazzle 'em with brilliance" and all that.

Keep us posted on how you make out.

Mickey

 

[mrdibbles]

Excellent feedback and advice guys. You helped me make the decision to go into the DMV <span style="text-decoration: underline">in person </span>versus faxing this information into the guy I spoke with on Friday. He said, "Fax it to me and I'll see what I can do". Yeah... I better be there to work some charm. That advice about pictures of dated parts is a good one... and a polite smile too. What's the saying? "You get more bees with honey than vinegar"... yeah that's it.

 

[hama61]

Hello,

Just some information on the Stebro exhaust. They are still in business as a few months ago I bought a stainless steel exhaust (sidepipes) for my BN 7 project

Harry

 

[TomFromStLouis]

....I have known of Triumph motorcycles that were held in dealer inventory for two years. A 1968 built model could well be sold in 1970 as a 1970 model. It is brand new at the time of sale, regardless of when it was actually built.....Dave

This must be what happened to my BJ8. Heritage certificate says built in 1965, but the title says '67. I had no idea a retailer could turn inventory so slowly and remain in business.

 

[BJ8Healeys]

The "year" of a Healey is a source of a lot of confusion. To the world outside the USA and Canada, the "year" of a car is the actual calendar year in which it was manufactured. A car built anytime between 1 January 1966 and 31 December 1966 is a "1966". However, in the USA and Canada the custom is to begin the "new model" year in September/October of the previous calendar year. Thus, cars arriving in dealer's showrooms in September or October of 1966 would be advertised and sold as "new 1967s", even though every one of them was actually built in 1966.
Moreover, unlike what we expect with American cars, Healeys were pretty much the same from one year to the next, especially BJ8s. It would have been easy for a dealer to merely change the sign on a given car from 1966 to 1967 if the car sat around long enough to get close to the next model year. The BJ8 Registry has quite a few cars that are registered two years later than their actual manufacturing year, probably because they remained unsold even longer than normal.
The only proof of the year of manufacture of a Healey is the BMIHT certificate, which should be proof enough for the DMV authorities. But it seems that DMVs can be very hard headed about changing any paperwork, whether it's an error or not.

Good luck!
Steve Byers
HBJ8L/36666
BJ8 Registry
Havelock, NC USA

 

[gblawson]

TomFromStLouis

In a lot of cases, they couldn't... and towards the end they had to take a number of TR7's with every order! Got pretty messy in the late 70s/early 80's. The dealer I dealt with from the early/late '60's became a Honda Dealer!!!!

 

[mrdibbles]

Well... I just returned from the DMV. I was prepared to scale K2 and instead was greeted with a smile and the whole thing was over in 15 minutes. In and out. Done. My car is a 1960 and now my title reflects this. Plus the benefit of now being allowed to strap on some vitage 1960 Texas iron to this car. BTW... when she was brand new she sold in Fort Worth so this AH 3000 is a Texan Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[Silverghost]

Yippee!! Glad to hear everything went smoothly!! :laugh: