Front Suspension Rebuild

[mylesw]

Hello

I have just finished the susspension rebuild on my TR4. The body is still off the frame so I haven't yet been able to put on the lower rebound brackets as there isn't enough weight to compress the springs. However, whilst I was able to turn the front wheels from side to side before I installed the springs, now I have the springs in place it takes a lot of effort to turn the wheels from side to side. I am assuming that once I get some weight on the suspension this will improve, however I thought I would put this question to the forum...should I worry about this or is this normal before the body and engine are put in? Note that it is the same on both sides.

Thanks for your help.

Myles

 

[Brosky]

Are you sure that nothing is binding or rubbing against any parts of the steering linkage?

 

[bash]

The first real job I did on my TR6 was the front suspension. I almost took it all apart again when I felt how hard it was to move with the wheels off the ground. Once I got it on the ground it was fine. I have read a few people asking the same question since then - so at least I knew it wasn't just me who was surprised.

Cheers
Alistair

 

[Opa]

Myles
is your steering rack piling up with the rebound rubbers not installed?

 

[martx-5]

I think you need the rebound rubber in there. The TR6's don't have them. I think that there is too much pressure on the upright.

I had my wife stand on the very front edge of the frame to compress the spring far enough to get the rebound rubber in. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif The trick is to attach the rebound rubber to the bracket first. Then you should be able to slide the lower bolt in thru the bracket and frame. Then have someone stand on the frame, and you should be able to sniggle in the upper bolt. I wiggled in a tapered drift on the opposite side from where I was pushing in the upper bolt, and that helped alot.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

When the front suspension is fully extended it will bind on the upper ball joint making turning the wheels very difficult. You should refrain from doing this until the suspension is loaded or the rebound bracket installed.

 

[Opa]

Alistair,
Did you put in new shocks at that time?I ran into the same problem some years ago when i upgraded the shocks.With the OEM woodheads wheels could be easily spun from side to side.After the new shock installation it took about five times the effort to go from side to side.
The problem is the new shocks were about 1/2 an inch. longer than OEM. This causes the rack inner ball joint to bind up.To further prove this I put 5 0r 6 washers between lower suspension pan and shock mount, no more binding.It's not a problem or cause for worry as long as your wheels are on the ground,only when lifted do they bind up.
To remedy this I went to a domestic shock of same length as original and modified the tube where the bolt goes thru.
Want a set of KYB's cheap? very low mileage... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif

 

[mylesw]

Thanks for your advice. The stiffness was there before I put on the rack so I think it's something to do with too much pressure on the threads between the vertical link. Anyway, I'll try to install the rebound brackets (got to get the shock in too as the angle of the spring pan is making this impossible to do) and see if that improves. Otherwise I'll wait until the engine and body are in..!

Thanks

Myles

 

[mylesw]

Tried to install the rebound brackets this evening but no joy. Even had the wife standing on the frame much to her delight. Springs are uprated which may be one reason why they aren't compressing. Anyone got any other tricks to install these things? Engine and gearbox are in but even with that extra weight still can't get the brackets on...

Myles

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

A unloaded tr3 has similiar <lack of> weight problems.

I've been told to use a 2x4 between the frame and the ceiling (be sure to be on a joist and not drywall) and then jack up the wheel. It sounds dangerous, but I know some that have done it. I think I'd make sure the 2x4 can't pop out -and the car can't move or shake...

 

[TR4]

Tried to install the rebound brackets this evening but no joy. Even had the wife standing on the frame much to her delight. Springs are uprated which may be one reason why they aren't compressing. Anyone got any other tricks to install these things? Engine and gearbox are in but even with that extra weight still can't get the brackets on...

Myles

Could you use a spring compressor?

 

[TR4nut]

Myles-

Are you using a spring compressor? If you trust your spring compressor (and make sure you do!), just compress everything up and then mount the rebound brackets. Doesn't solve the issue with the dampers, though.

I have a homebuilt one using hardened threaded rod if you need to borrow one, but you'll have to sign a waiver to make me feel good about it!

Randy

p.s. need more coffee, otherwise I'd see TR4 has already asked this question..

 

[MrAlex]

I had the same concerns when I rebuilt the front on my 63 TR4. I was positive that I had something wrong. After much time spent diagnosing, disassembly and reassembly I concluded that, as TR6Oldtimer stated in a post above, the new upper ball joint was binding when the suspension was fully extended. Happened on both sides. Using the spring compressor if you compress the spring a little you will see the binding relieves.

 

[mylesw]

Thanks for your comments. Don't think the spring compressor would work as I'd then have no way to get the shocks in once the rebound bracket had been fitted... However I think I read a while back about someone who compressed the springs and then put a piece of wood between the lower arms and the frame. Then when the compressor was released the wood would stop the arms from falling enabling installation of the shocks and subsequently the brackets. Not sure how the wood gets removed though. Anyone tried this..?

Myles

 

[martx-5]

With the engine and trans in the frame and someone standing on the front edge of the frame should compress that spring enough to get that rebound rubber and bracket in there. I managed to do it without the engine and trans in there. I doubt that the body on the frame will add that much more weight up front then someone standing on the front part of the frame.

What I did was jack up under the lower A-arm until the front of the frame just rose off the jack stands. I was able to then pry around enough to get the lower bolt in on the bracket (with the rebound rubber already attached). Then I called for the mrs. I had her stand on the very front end of the frame. I then jacked the A-arm up a little more until the frame was just off the jack stand. With a tapered drift pushed in from one side of the top hole to line things up, I was able to push in the top bolt. It isn't a walk in the park, but it is do-able.

Upgraded springs, while being stiffer, should be shorter then stock. If they aren't shorter, then the ride height will turn out too high. Maybe this is where your problem is.

 

[AltaKnight]

Get a heavier wife!

 

[TR4]

I saw where one fellow rested a trash can somewhere on the
car and filled it with water for weight needed. Or you could borrow my wife.........

 

[Adrio]

Anyone got any other tricks to install these things? Engine and gearbox are in but even with that extra weight still can't get the brackets on...

Myles

Forget the wife (besides I could never find the right words to ask her "I need your help because I need some weight" that would not get me slapped) what I do is get a plastic garbage can and start filling it with water. When full it is a lot heavier then a person and you don't have to think of polite ways of asking.

 

[Larry4A]

You should be able to use a sping compressor through your shock tunnel. I used a home made 5/8 redi rod with a top steel plate and nut at the top of the shock tunnel then insterted another steel plate through the lower part of the spring. The rod passes through a hole in both plates and is bolted above and below. Start cranking on the top bolt and it should compress the spring and not interferre with getting your vert. link in place. Once in undo the nuts and the bolt will drop out the bottom remove the plates then install your shock up from the bottom.
Worked for me.

Cheers

Larry4A

 

[Tinster]

Miles:

1. First install the upper and lower A-arms
2. Attach the coil plate at the rear of both lower A-arms-
Finger tighten both fasteners.
2. Carefully compress the coil spring with a spring compressor.
3.Place a small hydraulic jack under the front edge of the
coil pan. Raise jack and coil plate, little by little as the
coil spring is compressed, little by little.
4. Install the second set of fasteners onto the lower A-arms
as soon as enough threads are present to grab. Finger tighten.
5. Jack coil plate upward until you can grab the third set of
fastener threads.
6. Tighten the five lower A-arm/spring pan locknuts to around
30 pounds.
7. Install vertical link assembly.
8. remove jack
9. remove spring compressor
10. Install new shocks inside coil spring.

As always, I'm fairly non-mechanically inclined but this
procedure worked for me on my TR6 and I was not injured.