TR2/3/3A Figure 8 gaskets

[sp53]

Figure 8 gaskets, I recently received a copper figure 8 gasket in my set and that got me thinking about what would be best. At first I was going to use a steel one with a couple of coats of silver paint on it and put it in dry. Now I am thinking perhaps the copper gasket is the way to go because of the softness. In the day, when I would have an engine rebuilt at shop they would charge a hundred dollars a hole and put the gasket in dry with a couple of bolts holding down the sleeves and I never had any problems, but the last motor I did had a non-compression water leak, and I am not sure where. On that motor, I used a metal gasket with non-hardening permatex. Anyways looking for thoughts on figure 8 gaskets

 

[TR3driver]

I've always used the copper ones, with a coat of old fashioned Permatex. Works for me.

Somewhere, it says the steel ones are supposed to have a plastic coating on them. But the ones I got in a "no name" set didn't seem to have it, so I went with the copper ones from the Payen set instead. Payen seems to make good gaskets and I'm sure the copper is more expensive, so I suspect they think the copper is better for some reason. It's a shame they dropped the TR gasket sets.

 

[Geo Hahn]

Figure of Eight. I used the steel (because that is what came with the sleeve/piston kit) using Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket. They did seem to have some plastic-like coating on them. I suppose, apart from softness, the other thing is the possibility of rust -- though I think the 55 year-old originals were steel and looked good.

I pondered whether to try a dry fit to confirm the sleeves would sit proud of the block but in the end just put it all together 'for keeps' and everything checked out fine.

 

[charleyf]

All of the kits that I have received for the last many years have had the steel gaskets. I contacted TRF a number of years ago and requested the copper gaskets. The salesman left the phone and went back and found me a set. I got the impression that there was only a set or two on stock. Then I bought a set of NOS AE cylinders and pistons and those come with copper gaskets. So where are folks now finding the copper ones? Which is my preference.
Charley

 

[sp53]

The copper ones came with the lowered set I got from TRF. The reason I want to go dry was I am putting the engine together slow and wanted to wait on the head installation and did not want to possibly break the seal by using a wet sealer and moving things around. A good friend/teacher of mine that owned a machine shop suggested once before he retired when I presented him the slower rebuild problem to paint the metal gaskets with 3 coats of silver paint and use that for the sealer because it would take forever to dry and give me time, but now I have the copper stuff?

 

[CJD]

Good thread, as I was wondering what everyone was using. Steel gaskets came with both Moss piston/sleeve sets, and they appear to be plastic coated. Like the pistons, they have no manufacturing info with them. I then ordered a second pair of figure 8's, so I'd not have to reuse the pair I use for the sleeve set up. The extra set came as copper, and also no info on who supplied them either.

It sounds like the choices are dry, halomar, permatex, or silver paint. I likely will pass on the dry, as I don't trust the smoothness on the sealing edges in the 60 year old block. I've never used halomar, and have heard both good and bad about it. I know silver paint was the sealant of choice for the old steel shim head gaskets, so I know it works, but again have doubts about my block edges. I will likely use the copper for the final assembly and permatex.

 

[TR3driver]

It sounds like the choices are dry, halomar, permatex, or silver paint.

Or for maximum authenticity, you could always go with the "Wellseal" specified in the workshop manual. I believe TRF still sells the real thing.

 

[TomMull]

Figure of Eight. -- though I think the 55 year-old originals were steel and looked good.

Perhaps one of the history experts will correct me, but I don't think ST ever used steel FO8s in production. Steel came later and were put into general use around the time copper got pricey. I think they came in different thicknesses too (maybe still do although not generally). I found the copper ones hard to find a few years ago but relatively easier now. I still like the copper and have avoided steel mostly from habit.
Tom

 

[TR3driver]

Perhaps one of the history experts will correct me, but I don't think ST ever used steel FO8s in production. Steel came later and were put into general use around the time copper got pricey. I think they came in different thicknesses too (maybe still do although not generally). I found the copper ones hard to find a few years ago but relatively easier now. I still like the copper and have avoided steel mostly from habit.
Tom

TR2/3 workshop manual mentions them being plastic-coated steel. I've also never seen any mention of them being available in various thicknesses in the factory literature. They are still available from Mordy Dunst I believe, but not cheap.

I've had some trouble with the liner protrusion not being adequate all around. Evidently the earlier blocks weren't always machined just right. So IMO it is important to check on both sides of every cylinder. Mordy's thicker Fo8 gaskets would no doubt work perfectly, but I was in a hurry and found an alternate solution that has worked out very well for me.

 

[TomMull]

TR2/3 workshop manual mentions them being plastic-coated steel. I've also never seen any mention of them being available in various thicknesses in the factory literature. They are still available from Mordy Dunst I believe, but not cheap.

I've had some trouble with the liner protrusion not being adequate all around. Evidently the earlier blocks weren't always machined just right. So IMO it is important to check on both sides of every cylinder. Mordy's thicker Fo8 gaskets would no doubt work perfectly, but I was in a hurry and found an alternate solution that has worked out very well for me.

Yes, thanks Randall, I'm wrong again. The early cars at least did indeed have steel FO8s. However, my experience with several teardowns of what I believe to be unmolested engines all had copper FO8s. I notice the parts catalog lists a part number revision (108024 early, 112789 later) at engine # 9173e. Could that have been from steel to copper? I realize the 112789 number invariable comes as steel now but some years ago (from my memory) the same part number invariable shipped as copper. Recently, some of the retailers have added the suffix "C" to the latter number to indicate copper.
Also, Roger Williams, How to restore Triumph TR2...., supports my unreliable memory as to thicknesses, indicating the FO8s were available in two sizes, .013 (standard) and .018. I do not find anything in ST lit to support this however. Would be nice to have, though, at a reasonable price.
Tom

 

[TR4nut]

So where are folks now finding the copper ones? Which is my preference.
Charley

I think there may be a few sources, but if you want to buy them separately, BP Northwest carries them:

https://www.bpnorthwest.com/triumph.../gasket-figure-8-copper-tr2-tr3-tr4-tr4a.html

 

[charleyf]

Thanks I will use them.
Charley

 

[CJD]

Just a follow-up. My order for Wellseal from TRF has been back ordered for 2 months. I just checked with them and they say they will not be getting any more. Apparently they had a box of 100 tubes, but they don't plan to do it again. So, after 2 weeks of Internet searches, I have to conclude that there is no supplier for Wellseal in the colonies.

There are plenty of suppliers in the UK, though. It's cheap there, but shipping is a killer! Just ordered a tube...I'll post if there is anything significant with receiving/using it on this build.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I have to conclude that there is no supplier for Wellseal in the colonies...

I assume your search included Moss US? Their site still shows it available:

https://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/SearchResults.aspx?SearchText=221-540&WebCatalogID=0

 

[Born_Loser]

I have only had the head off once, but, i reused the copper one - heated it up with my oxy/acetylene rig, and quenched it in water. Was about as stiff as a piece of paper when i put it on dry. No leaks, and I would/will do it again.

 

[CJD]

No...I hadn't found that. The good news (for me) is the price is about the same as I'm paying ordering direct from the UK.

 

[TuffTR250]

I used the copper figure 8's and coated both the block and the figure 8's with Permatex copper spray sealer. The mechanic that has been advising me recommended that. I also used the copper spray on both sides of the head gasket, manifold gaskets, and exhaust pipe gasket.
Regards,
Bob

 

[bobhustead]

I have built only 3 of the wet liner engines, but I used copper spray as suggested by TuffTR250. I've had no problems. I have used it extensively on head gaskets, again without problems.
Bob