Bleeding Lockheed Brakes on 1951 Vanguard

[fundytides]

I have installed new lines, wheel cylinders and brake linings on my 1951 Standard Vanguard Phase 1. However I am having trouble getting all of the air out of the system and still have a soft peddle. I have tried pressure bleeding as well as the old 2 man pump and bleed method. The front brakes which have 2 cylinders, have the bleeder on the bottom cylinder. I don't understand how to avoid having air trapped in the top cylinder which has no bleeder. Maybe this is not an issue. Has anyone had this problem? Any suggestions would be appreciated

 

[JPSmit]

wow you might be the only vanguard owner on the forum. (and Saint John is gorgeous!)

are you sure the bleeder is correctly located? (full disclosure I installed mine upsidedown initially)

I am trying to visualize, do you have a picture?

 

[fundytides]

wow you might be the only vanguard owner on the forum. (and Saint John is gorgeous!)

are you sure the bleeder is correctly located? (full disclosure I installed mine upsidedown initially)

I am trying to visualize, do you have a picture?

 

[fundytides]

Thanks for the response. Yes, the bleeder is correctly located. I have both a service manual and a parts manual and they both show the bleeder in the same location as on my car. My Dad, who has since passed, bought this car about 30 years ago as he was the New Brunswick distributor for these cars in 1949-51 and probably imported this car through his dealership. Lots of fun trying to find parts for this car although the former Service Manager (in 1951) from my Dad's dealership showed up at my both at a flea market several years ago and gave me a Service Manual that he had kept all these years. I remembered him from the dealership although I was only 12 years old at the time but like my father was a little bit "car crazy". Besides the Vanguard, I have a restored '31 Model A Roadster, a restored '27 Model T Touring car and a working (sometimes) 1954 John Deere 40c 2 cyl crawler. Now helping my son restore a 1950 Fargo 1 ton pick-up. The fun never ends!

 

[DrEntropy]

Only way I can think of would be to pressure bleed it from the bleed nipples, up through the top cylinders.

A total WAG on my part, but could you "cheat" and swap the backing plates side-to-side so the cylinders with the bleed nipples are at the tops?

 

[JPSmit]

Only way I can think of would be to pressure bleed it from the bleed nipples, up through the top cylinders.

A total WAG on my part, but could you "cheat" and swap the backing plates side-to-side so the cylinders with the bleed nipples are at the tops?

I was imagining something similar, ot whether it is possible to bleed the cylinder with it off the car? It's easy enough to do with disk brakes but I suspect these are drums.

 

[fundytides]

Thanks for your ideas. They are drum brakes and the line from the master cyl enters a banjo fitting on the top cylinder and a second line comes out of the banjo to a similar banjo on the bottom cylinder. This bottom banjo also accommodates the bleeder fitting. Don't see that swapping the backing plates would resolve anything. Maybe a triple banjo at the top, if available, could accommodate a bleeder there. Thinking I might try to bleed the top cylinder by just "cracking" the top fitting while a helper holds pressure on the pedal. I am just assuming that this is causing my problem but, maybe not. I can't believe that they were this much trouble to bleed originally. Keep the ideas coming!

 

[JPSmit]

So, a little research seems to suggest that you bleed at the master cylinder and not at the slave cylinders.

Found this:

> BRITISH REPAIR MANUAL: APPENDICES - PDF Free Download < (I know Mayflower)

Bleeding the System.
Bleeding
the system, or expelling air, is not a routine operation and should be necessary only when some
portion of the hydraulic equipment has been disconnected or when fluid has been drained off.

(1) Fill the supply tank with brake fluid and keep at least a quarter
full throughout the operation. Otherwise,
air will be drawn in and a fresh start will be necessary.

(2) If the master cylinder used in the system is of a type fitted with a bleeder screw, commence at this unit.
Slacken the bleeder screw; depress the brake peda
l slowly by hand. While FLUID issues and before the
pedal reaches the end of its stroke, tighten the bleeder screw.

(3) Attach a rubber tube to the bleeder screw on one of the wheel cylinders and allow the free end to be
submerged in a little fluid in a clean
glass jar. Open the bleeder screw one complete turn.

(4) Depress the brake pedal slowly, allowing it to return unassisted. Repeat this pumping action with a slight
pause between each operation. Watch the flow of fluid in the jar and when all air bubbles cease
to appear
hold the pedal down firmly and securely tighten the bleeder screw.

(5) Repeat at all wheel cylinders.

 

[waltesefalcon]

With that set up on the dual cylinders you shouldn't have a problem bleeding the brakes using two people. With fluid flowing to the upper cylinder it first it should force the air into the lower cylinder when you pump it and allow you to bleed it decently well.

 

[JPSmit]

Oh and these folk, while retired have rebuilt Standard brake cylinder so might have some insight

Contact Information for Sierra Specialty Auto

www.brakecylinder.com

 

[waltesefalcon]

JP headed me off at the pass with his superlative information.

 

[DrEntropy]

Bit off-subject but going to that site and hitting "unusual cylinders" one is presented with the 1969 GTV brake master. BTDT!!

And back to the issue:

With that set up on the dual cylinders you shouldn't have a problem bleeding the brakes using two people. With fluid flowing to the upper cylinder it first it should force the air into the lower cylinder when you pump it and allow you to bleed it decently well.

It seems logical, as long as there isn't much time between pedal strokes. I'd go with the bleed screw open as pumping, glass jar & tube in fluid. Pump (paying close attention to M/C fluid level!) until no air is evident in the tube and tighten the bleeder.

I've always had great results with Gunson's Eez-E-Bleed system, BTW. Plenty of reserve fluid and (low) pressure has worked on everything we used it on.