Best Sealants/Permatex, Hylomar, etc

[KVH]

For the water pump and water pump housing: Hylomar?

For the oil sump: Permatex High Tack?

For the valve cover: Permatex High Tack?

For the Payen Head Gasket: Nothing?

For the Figure 8 Gaskets below the liners: Wellseal?

For the fuel pump: Permatex High Tack?

Other views please?

 

[Tinkerman]

I used Wellseal for the figure 8 gaskets and I used Hylomar for the oil sump and nothing on the headgasket. All else has been Permatex Ultra Black.

Good Luck, Tinkerman

Course the engine has not been started yet so I may have all kinds of little leaks when it does.

 

[tosoutherncars]

Correct, nothing on the Payen. It's designed to 'squash' a bit, with the heat and the pressure. No other dressing required, just two clean surfaces.

 

[rlandrum]

Hmm... I may have goofed then... The book said to use Wellseal on the head gasket, and opted instead for a light coating of spray on gasket material in it's place.

Should I remove and clean before I continue, or will it be fine?

 

[KVH]

That spray on sealer should be absolutely fine. It's too thin to make any differnce.

I'd like to hear what others say--and I, too, would like to know why the manual says to use a jointing compound (and if it might actually help even for the Payen gasket).

thx

 

[TR3driver]

I use Hylomar on all cork & paper gaskets. Fig 8 and the felt at the rear seal get Permatex #3.

When I was having trouble with leaking headgaskets, I tried many different kinds of goop ... none of it seemed to help. Once I solved the underlying problem, it sealed just fine with nothing. So that's what I use. But a little Permatex or Wellseal or whatever certainly won't hurt.

 

[rlandrum]

I've been using blue silicon on pretty much everything. I like that it doesn't harden and is easy to get off if I screw up.

On the rear main, I used some Indian Head Shellac compound and the felt. It worked great. It made a pretty tight seal, but it seems the payen kit only came with about 8 inches of felt, and the felt compressed slightly below the block (3/16 of an inch, maybe). The leftover I filled with silicon.

I purchased Hylomar and Wellseal, but opted for the Silicon because I've used it before. After using the Wellseal on the Fo8 gaskets, it wasn't what I expected, and was harder to use and more messy that I liked. I used some of the hylomar on the head studs, but it too wasn't really what I expected, being more like corn syrup when it dried, which was pretty fast.

 

[RonMacPherson]

The best for all but combustion gas sealing.

https://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...asket_Maker.htm

 

[TR3driver]

it seems the payen kit only came with about 8 inches of felt, and the felt compressed slightly below the block (3/16 of an inch, maybe).

A common problem, so I've heard. Tho not listed on the web site, BFE sells additional felt for that reason.

 

[martx-5]

I bought additional felt just because everyone here said that what you get isn't enough. It was good advice. Having said that, when I took the engine apart, there was felt on one side, and silcon on the other. Neither showed any signs of leakage. As a matter of fact, the scroll seal showed no signs of leakage either, so I just refitted that insted of going 'modern' with a lip seal. The rest of the engine was assembled with Wellseal. I like that stuff beacause it doesn't harden and if you have to disassemble something while building the engien, you don't have to sacrifice a gasket. I only have about two hours on the engine, but so far (knock on wood), no drips, runs or errors.

I think the real trick is not what you use as a sealant, because the gasket is what really does the sealing. The trick is proper assembly and getting the mating surfaces (especially the stamped steel items like the pan and timing cover) to mate as best you can.

There is alot of talk about that scroll seal and what is the proper diameter of the setting tool. <span style="font-weight: bold">Randall</span> has always stated that the ones from Moss etc. are just too big. Well, he's right. When I took the engine apart and saw no appreciable oil leak from the scroll seal that was there, I didn't disturb it. I took the crank out, re-assembled the rear main and measured the diameter of the seal. It matched what <span style="font-weight: bold">Randall</span> had suggested was the right diameter. I made a tool to match that and gave back the tool from Moss that I had borrowed.

 

[TR3driver]

There is alot of talk about that scroll seal and what is the proper diameter of the setting tool. <span style="font-weight: bold">Randall</span> has always stated that the ones from Moss etc. are just too big.

That information actually came from Hardy Prentice, a long time TR racer who in not on BCF.

 

[KVH]

I need more of an education from you guys:

a) For those of you who "pull the crank," I assume you have your own engine hoist? Do you then mount the engine on a four-bolt engine stand? (do you always pull the engine and transmission together?)

b) How tricky are those Figure 8 gaskets, and is it easy to make a mess using Wellseal and jamming those liners back down--they look like a tight fit?

c) Why use a sealer on head bolts? I've never heard of that before.

d) How does that rear seal mandrell work again? That drawing leaves me confused.

e) Finally, a bit off the topic: I need to replace my engine mounts. Are my eyes deceiving me, or do I see little nub-like pegs on the bottom of each of the two front engine plate feet that dig down into the rubber engine mounts?

Thanks all.

PS I'd be a happy man today if my 401K had been invested in Triumphs. Very happy. I'll be working until I'm in my 90s.

 

[TR3driver]

a) For those of you who "pull the crank," I assume you have your own engine hoist? Do you then mount the engine on a four-bolt engine stand?

I do now, but I've done it in the past using only a "Come-a-long" and a convenient overhead beam in the garage. Learned the hard way to jam a 2x4 between joist and floor on either side of the car.

But then a "friend" talked me into going halves with him on one of these which I like a lot better. And since he convienently forgot to ever pay his half, it's all mine now. BTW, the "non-folding" version actually stores in less space than the folding one, after removing 5 bolts.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]
(do you always pull the engine and transmission together?)[/QUOTE]Yup. Unless I just want the transmission out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]
b) How tricky are those Figure 8 gaskets, and is it easy to make a mess using Wellseal and jamming those liners back down--they look like a tight fit?[/QUOTE]The gaskets are easy, just clean the seats in the block good, goop the gaskets up with your favorite gunk and lay them in. Then drive the liners in one at a time. The gasket should just lay there, as it's not actually a tight fit against the spigot of the liner.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]c) Why use a sealer on head bolts? I've never heard of that before.[/QUOTE]I don't.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]d) How does that rear seal mandrell work again? That drawing leaves me confused.[/QUOTE]The halves of the aluminum seal need to be positioned so they almost, but not quite, touch the crankshaft scroll. You clamp the mandrel into the rear main bearing (without the bearing inserts) instead of the crankshaft, and it's just enough larger than the crank scroll to center the seal with the proper clearance.

Or, according to Hardy, you can wrap thread around the crankshaft itself (on both the scroll and the rear main bearing journal) to accomplish the same thing.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]e) Finally, a bit off the topic: I need to replace my engine mounts. Are my eyes deceiving me, or do I see little nub-like pegs on the bottom of each of the two front engine plate feet that dig down into the rubber engine mounts?[/QUOTE]Not that I've ever noticed. In fact, the engine plate does not touch the rubber, there is a steel plate bonded to the rubber that the front plate gets bolted to. Perhaps your mounts are separated and you are looking at the upper plate of the mount ?

 

[rlandrum]

I need more of an education from you guys:

a) For those of you who "pull the crank," I assume you have your own engine hoist? Do you then mount the engine on a four-bolt engine stand? (do you always pull the engine and transmission together?)

Depends. Our body is off the frame right now, so the transmission is mounted in the car and the engine is on the stand. Since I've never done it before, I suspect I will put the engine back in the before I connect the tranny to it.

c) Why use a sealer on head bolts? I've never heard of that before.

It's not needed in this engine. In a Small Block Chevy, the head bolts go into the water passages.

When I removed the studs, I noticed rust on the threads of some of my studs. I decided to use the sealer to ensure that no more rusting would occur. The rust most likely came from a head gasket leak that vented towards the studs.

 

[TR3driver]

Personally, I wouldn't use sealant on a stud into a blind hole. It can seal the threads well enough to build air pressure in the hole as you thread the stud in, which can cause the stud to not go in far enough, or potentially even break the casting.

I would suggest that anti-seize is more appropriate (and is also what I use on TR motors).