5 Speed Issue

[Patrick67BJ8]

You can do this in any gear position you want, although neutral is simplest, especially if you have the shifter out. Removal of these items will not affect any components inside the gearbox.

Under each of the three cap screws you will first find a spring. After removing the spring, you will probably need a small magnet to remove the ball. Their entire purpose is to create a little extra pressure on the shift rod when it is in gear or in neutral. It does this by pushing the ball into an appropriately located notch on the rod. My main concern here is that, since all 3 sets don't show the same part #, that perhaps the wrong combo was used in the bottom(5th gear) location. We have a W58 "training" unit at work. I will see if I can get some pics to make this easier to understand.

do t forget the tool to remove the cap screws. The second from the bottom is for 5th gear. Stretching the spring us okay, but I've been told that it will return to its manufactured spec after a while.

 

[CraigC]

do t forget the tool to remove the cap screws. The second from the bottom is for 5th gear. Stretching the spring us okay, but I've been told that it will return to its manufactured spec after a while.

Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)

 

[CraigC]

Thanks Craig. Pictures would certainly help.

John, it seems our foreman has replaced the old W58 training box with a newer R-150 series unit that has not been opened. Fundamentally the same, but laid out a little differently. I'll get the pics up in the AM.

 

[John Kuzman]

Craig -

Thanks again. I hope to fiddle with the gearbox early next week. Right now, I am focused on our Bonita Springs home. My Corvette and Bugeye are housed down there.

 

[Patrick67BJ8]

Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)

No problem. I'm only quoting what the transmission repair shop told me to do and the location of the 5th gear detent cap. They could be mistaken? The T-40 Torqx was correct. The trans came to me used from Pete Delaney along with my kit. It is a W58 with the 28% 5th gear ratio. I did a lot of research on the problem with the 5th gear sliding out of gear and one seemingly very knowledge experienced Toyota trans repairman said it would be do the a bad 5th gear synchro assembly. That had already been replaced along with the 5th gear so that is a mystery why it still didn't work.after R&R the trans three times I'm getting rather good at it.

 

[CraigC]

Patrick, not saying you are wrong because I can't see your trans, but a fourth detent on the side of the center carrier would seem to be the exception rather than the rule. I am not counting the one that faces up on the top. My parts system shows it exists, but the Technical Information System(digital) and the few old print repair manuals we still have don't show it for any of the W5x-series boxes. It's application would be for the reverse gear shift rod. By chance do you know what the exact original application was?

With that said, let's make it simple and say 5th gear detent is third from the top.

Depending on the age of the gearbox, the cap screws should be 6mm(early) or T-40 TorX(later)

I just want to confirm that the additional detent set shown in our parts system is correct. It is for reverse ---BUT--- it is located inside the transmission as part of the 5th/reverse linkage. That means only 3 externally accessible detent sets.

This means that the shift rod/detent stack goes like this: top is 1st/2nd gear, middle is 3rd/4th and the bottom is 5th gear.

 

[CraigC]

John, here are the pics. Like I said, they are from a different trans but the arrangement is exactly the same.

The first pic shows the three detent locations. On your trans, the top one will be set back a bit due to the shape of the carrier plate.

This next pic is of the spring in the hole after plug removal.

Now, I'm pulling the spring out with a small magnet.

Next, the magnet is used to remove the ball.

Finally, a picture of the ball, spring and cap.

My suggestion would be to remove all 3 sets, making sure to keep them in order. The balls, springs and caps for the lower two sets should match each other. The upper cap should be slightly shorter than the other two. I don't know what is different about the upper ball and spring, but I suspect the spring may be shorter. I can only confirm that those two items have unique part numbers.

The goal with this procedure is make sure that the wrong cap, a too short or too soft spring, or wrong sized ball have not been installed in the lowest detent hole. Any problems, post up, ideally with pictures.

 

[John Kuzman]

Craig -

Thank you very much for the pictures. This information, combined with the pics, gives me confidence that I can at least rule out the detent balls/springs/cap combinations.
Do I need to drain out any gear lube prior to removing the caps?

I may be delayed in getting to this project, at least until I get the initial assessment of damages to our Florida home.

 

[CraigC]

Hope things are OK at the Florida home.

You shouldn't see more than a drip or two of oil. The fill plug, and, therefore, the oil level are lower than the detent holes.

 

[John Kuzman]

Had a chance to look at the gearbox today. Firstly, I removed the shifter and confirmed that both the shifter ball seat and the end bushing are brand new.

Next, removed the three side shift rod caps, springs and balls. Top: Shorter cap, longer spring with yellow stripe; Middle-Longer cap, shorter, softer spring with no stripe; Bottom-Longer cap, longer spring with yellow stripe. Middle and bottom caps match. Top and bottom springs match. Here is a picture of the springs and caps. Left to right is top-middle-bottom.



Heading to Florida home Wednesday. As of right now, nobody can get in the development due to too many trees across the roads and standing water. No power.

 

[HealeyRick]

Heading to Florida home Wednesday. As of right now, nobody can get in the development due to too many trees across the roads and standing water. No power.

Saw on the news there was up to 3 ft of water in Bonita Springs. Hope there's not too much damage in your home.

 

[CraigC]

Next, removed the three side shift rod caps, springs and balls. Top: Shorter cap, longer spring with yellow stripe; Middle-Longer cap, shorter, softer spring with no stripe; Bottom-Longer cap, longer spring with yellow stripe. Middle and bottom caps match. Top and bottom springs match. Here is a picture of the springs and caps. Left to right is top-middle-bottom.

View attachment 50397

I suspect you will want to move the one yellow spring down one hole and put the unmarked spring in the top hole. The bottom two sets of caps, springs and balls should be the same. I will check with my parts guys to see if they can confirm the yellow painted springs as being correct for the lower holes.

 

[John Kuzman]

Thanks again, Craig. Looks like I may be running out of the easier options.

 

[John Kuzman]

UPDATE: You are not going to believe this. Finally established communications with the rebuilder. He could not understand why the gearbox was jumping out of 5th gear, but he decided to send me another recently rebuilt W58. Oh joy, I get to pull out the gearbox and do a swap. Did the swap last weekend. Buttoned everything up, and the last task before adding gear lube and the shifter was to install the driveshaft.

Driveshaft installation is simple; Just slip it in the tunnel, slide the yoke into the gearbox, push it forward until the rear pinion yoke lines up and attach 4 bolts. WRONG! The splined yoke of the driveshaft (brand new with the "Smitty" kit) goes into the gearbox part way then suddenly stops. The splined yoke will not slide in enough to bolt up the rear pinion yoke. Remember, this yoke fit fine on the first W58, so it is not the yoke. Looking down the shifter hole, I can start to see the tip of the yoke, but it will not budge forward any further.

I slid a PVC fitting with closely the same ID and OD as the splined yoke, and it slid in with no problem all the way past the splines of the W58 output shaft. The yoke also slid fine on the first rebuilt W58 and on an old W-series gearbox that I bought off EBay years ago.

It seems that the output shaft of the second W58 is either twisted, galled, swollen or bent. no amount of even gentle persuasion will get the yoke to slide into the gearbox. I even took the yoke off the driveshaft so that I was dealing with a straight shot into the W58, and the result was the same. Anyone have any thoughts?

I am going down the shop later today and pushing the BJ7 to the back of the shop for the winter. I have much more important things to do with my time than pulling the gearbox AGAIN. In the spring, I plan to visit the local Toyota Service Department and ask for the name of a reputable, reliable rebuilder and take the W58 that jumps out of gear to that shop for repairs.

 

[RDKeysor]

I drove a BN7 with a Toyota gear box back to Florida after purchasing it in southern Virginia a few years back. I struggled to get the car into fifth gear and thought I had a bad tranny. I quickly took it to the local car restoration "expert", who replaced the nylon "boot" on the lower ball. I had brought the car to his shop with the tranny completed exposed, so that was a very easy job that cost me $160 or so. The fixer couldn't get it into gear when I went to pick it up. I then joined the Toyota truck owners Web group and learned about the green bushing made by Dorman and shown in the Summit Racing ads a couple of forum members posted. The little bushing shown alongside it was the one my expert installed. I paid about the $11.97 price quoted in the Summit ad at my local Toyota dealer. The parts guy didn't know what I was talking about, event though I had the tranny "tower" components with me, but he found a mechanic in the shop who identified the part for him. I might add that not a trace to the larger bushing remained inside the shift lever tower. The addition of the bushing instantly solved my shift problems. For those unfamiliar to Toyota gear boxes, the shift tower has an "artillery" lock up, simply depress the top, rotate, and it lifts off. Or that's the way I remember it. If you visit sites that sell rock climbing truck components--Toyota gear boxes seem much favored for this--you will find a variety of these bushings offered for sale. I was considering a new gear box until I found my solution.