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DrEntropy said:
'Nother coincidence - ours was a '62 Falcon! First new car my mom bought after she and Dad divorced. Had my first lessons before moving back with Dad and continued in his '60 Karmannn Ghia.
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Witnessed possible WOT accident this morning
- Thread starter RickB
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'Nother coincidence - ours was a '62 Falcon! First new car my mom bought after she and Dad divorced. Had my first lessons before moving back with Dad and continued in his '60 Karmannn Ghia.
OP
RickB
Yoda
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Doc said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]When was the last time you saw a Chevy Cobalt driver do a walk-around and preflight[/QUOTE]
When was the last time you did a walk around "preflight" on your LBC?
I do it pretty much every time. I'm in the habit so I also do it on the family (3 ton curb weight) van.
You just can't know the state of everything unless you look often. Once you get in the habit the slightest thing will catch your attention.
Like: "gee that left rear tire looks a little low".
With our little cars so much depends on every little nut and bolt. Being aware of the rattles and shakes that are normal you will know when something new starts to come loose.
You have to have a regular maintenance schedule where you not only change fluids and pump in new grease but also check the tightness of those nuts and bolts. Having an A arm come loose at freeway speed isn't something anyone wants to experience.
Still - I totally prefer the car with no chips to the one that depends on them.
Maybe it's because I'm in IT and I have a healthy respect for the failure rate of electronics. Maybe it's just that the simple nature of our cars has it's own intrinsic value.
Anyone know the total number of parts down to nuts, bolts and washers in an LBC versus the total number in an average new car?
I'll bet that statistic would be educational.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]When was the last time you saw a Chevy Cobalt driver do a walk-around and preflight[/QUOTE]
When was the last time you did a walk around "preflight" on your LBC?
I do it pretty much every time. I'm in the habit so I also do it on the family (3 ton curb weight) van.
You just can't know the state of everything unless you look often. Once you get in the habit the slightest thing will catch your attention.
Like: "gee that left rear tire looks a little low".
With our little cars so much depends on every little nut and bolt. Being aware of the rattles and shakes that are normal you will know when something new starts to come loose.
You have to have a regular maintenance schedule where you not only change fluids and pump in new grease but also check the tightness of those nuts and bolts. Having an A arm come loose at freeway speed isn't something anyone wants to experience.
Still - I totally prefer the car with no chips to the one that depends on them.
Maybe it's because I'm in IT and I have a healthy respect for the failure rate of electronics. Maybe it's just that the simple nature of our cars has it's own intrinsic value.
Anyone know the total number of parts down to nuts, bolts and washers in an LBC versus the total number in an average new car?
I'll bet that statistic would be educational.
Ahh, words from a true VW driver The one thing that concerns me as cars become more and more electronic is, what happens when it tries to go 100k miles with little maintenance?? Many of these things work well in military applications because of the constant maintenance applied. How many folks would do or pay for an hour or twos worth of checks/replacements to drive each day?? OK, perhaps not exactly the same thing as an F-16 in complexity, but the amount of daily use and abuse of you car in comparision evens it out probably more than you'd think.
Westfield_XI
Jedi Warrior
Offline
RickB said:
When was the last time you did a walk around "preflight" on your LBC?
I do it pretty much every time. I'm in the habit so I also do it on the family (3 ton curb weight) van.
You just can't know the state of everything unless you look often. Once you get in the habit the slightest thing will catch your attention.
Like: "gee that left rear tire looks a little low".
With our little cars so much depends on every little nut and bolt. Being aware of the rattles and shakes that are normal you will know when something new starts to come loose.
You have to have a regular maintenance schedule where you not only change fluids and pump in new grease but also check the tightness of those nuts and bolts. Having an A arm come loose at freeway speed isn't something anyone wants to experience.
Still - I totally prefer the car with no chips to the one that depends on them.
Maybe it's because I'm in IT and I have a healthy respect for the failure rate of electronics. Maybe it's just that the simple nature of our cars has it's own intrinsic value.
Anyone know the total number of parts down to nuts, bolts and washers in an LBC versus the total number in an average new car?
I'll bet that statistic would be educational.[/QUOTE]
I would not be surprised to find that a comparable new car had fewer nuts, bolts and individual parts than say, an XJ6. After all one electronic box will replace an entire mechanical climate control, etc. Also much of the carmakers energy goes into making cars easy to build: more un-repairable subassemblies, but fewer individual parts. I do know that there is a lot more wiring and it will only get worse until multiplexing becomes widespread.
OP
RickB
Yoda
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Westfield_XI said:
I would not be surprised to find that a comparable new car had fewer nuts, bolts and individual parts than say, an XJ6. After all one electronic box will replace an entire mechanical climate control, etc. Also much of the carmakers energy goes into making cars easy to build: more un-repairable subassemblies, but fewer individual parts. I do know that there is a lot more wiring and it will only get worse until multiplexing becomes widespread. [/QUOTE]
Ah - there's the thing - you're thinking of the black plastic box as "a part". I'm thinking of every part that goes into making that magic black plastic box.
We have (for example) a hazard light switch with maybe 6 connectors on the back, a spring and a couple pieces of brass inside and maybe a little ball bearing. Total number of pieces to make that part including the plastic bits might be 12.
How many components does it take to put together the average PCM in a new car?
14dna
Luke Skywalker
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Well, speaking from my observations, I would say the average Honda Civic with all the bells and whistles would have a huge number of parts more than any MG.
Consider that most cars have ABS, A/C, Cruise, Windows, Locks w/remotes,
starters, and a plethora of airbags to add up. Then, look at components, wiring, fuel injection systems, emission control systems that have self-monitors, temp control units, an so on.
You get the idea. After 45 years under hoods and dashes, I find the old cars a delight to work on. And they can be fixed without about $200,000 worth of quickly obsolete equipment.
Sorry guys, My rant is now over.
Dave
Consider that most cars have ABS, A/C, Cruise, Windows, Locks w/remotes,
starters, and a plethora of airbags to add up. Then, look at components, wiring, fuel injection systems, emission control systems that have self-monitors, temp control units, an so on.
You get the idea. After 45 years under hoods and dashes, I find the old cars a delight to work on. And they can be fixed without about $200,000 worth of quickly obsolete equipment.
Sorry guys, My rant is now over.
Dave
Westfield_XI
Jedi Warrior
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AngliaGT said:
I do not find the lack of airbags, side guard door beams, reinforced windshield frames and collapsable steering columns to be a plus. I drive my LBC despite the lack of even the most basic safety devices not because of it. All affection for these cars aside they are deathtraps compared to even the cheapest economy car of today as far as passive safety.
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No argument there!
...but just ~if~ current drivers had a bit more experience with crash avoidance, training on a more pro-active scale and given some simple physics lessons just maybe the 45K deaths per year on our highways would diminish a bit. The "legislate safety to protect us from ourselves" ideology hasn't worked all that well so-far, IMO.
That skateboard with restraints you drive is likely safer (because YOU drive it) than any current jellybean equipped with airbags, crumple zones an' all, when at the command of some texting soccer mom distracted by a sale at th' local WallyWorld.
...but just ~if~ current drivers had a bit more experience with crash avoidance, training on a more pro-active scale and given some simple physics lessons just maybe the 45K deaths per year on our highways would diminish a bit. The "legislate safety to protect us from ourselves" ideology hasn't worked all that well so-far, IMO.
That skateboard with restraints you drive is likely safer (because YOU drive it) than any current jellybean equipped with airbags, crumple zones an' all, when at the command of some texting soccer mom distracted by a sale at th' local WallyWorld.
OP
RickB
Yoda
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I am certainly looking at all the drivers on the freeway differently over the past couple days than I did before.
Now my realization is that not only can their inattention harm me but their equipment can fail in truly random ways that can kill them and anyone else around them.
Added to this is the fact that on my stretch of I-90 there have been several deaths due to drivers on the wrong side plowing into oncoming traffic.
I've caught myself driving without my stereo on several times over the past two days. Just paying attention to the road and the cars and drivers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Gimme your Sprite or I'm tellin' yer WIFE!!
[/QUOTE]
Haw! She's out driving the Midget right now - by herself!!
She's heard the whole thing from me now more times than she wanted. Hopefully she is being as careful as I wish she would be.
Now my realization is that not only can their inattention harm me but their equipment can fail in truly random ways that can kill them and anyone else around them.
Added to this is the fact that on my stretch of I-90 there have been several deaths due to drivers on the wrong side plowing into oncoming traffic.
I've caught myself driving without my stereo on several times over the past two days. Just paying attention to the road and the cars and drivers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Gimme your Sprite or I'm tellin' yer WIFE!!
[/QUOTE]Haw! She's out driving the Midget right now - by herself!!
She's heard the whole thing from me now more times than she wanted. Hopefully she is being as careful as I wish she would be.
14dna
Luke Skywalker
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Doc, You and I agree SO MUCH!!! on this safety issue. We cannot legislate
a perfect world. All we can do is educate!
And, on a lighter note: Rick, if the Doc doesn't squeal on ya, I will.
See, I'm already upset that you guys get cars almost everyday for a couple of hundred bucks, and I can't even find anything in Ontario without half a rust job (belt line down) and Thousands of dollars
Seriously, we may have to talk at length about western cars going east!
Dave
a perfect world. All we can do is educate!
And, on a lighter note: Rick, if the Doc doesn't squeal on ya, I will.
See, I'm already upset that you guys get cars almost everyday for a couple of hundred bucks, and I can't even find anything in Ontario without half a rust job (belt line down) and Thousands of dollars
Seriously, we may have to talk at length about western cars going east!
Dave
14dna
Luke Skywalker
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Rick:
Seriously, your cars are perfect compared to here.
And, nothing in Ontario is under $1500 or so. Makes it hard to restore when buy-in is already high.
If I could work out a plan, I would love to have a solid base to start from.
Problem is, getting everything lined up for a long, involved road trip.
I may PM you in the next couple of days.
Dave
Seriously, your cars are perfect compared to here.
And, nothing in Ontario is under $1500 or so. Makes it hard to restore when buy-in is already high.
If I could work out a plan, I would love to have a solid base to start from.
Problem is, getting everything lined up for a long, involved road trip.
I may PM you in the next couple of days.
Dave
AngliaGT
Great Pumpkin
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Dave,
We are spoiled out here - I've been to the East Coast,
& was horrified at what hapeens to daily drivers.I couldn't
even let a dd suffer that kind of fate.
I had a guy come over from England.He was amazed that
the strut towers on my cars were original.That's normal here.
- Doug
We are spoiled out here - I've been to the East Coast,
& was horrified at what hapeens to daily drivers.I couldn't
even let a dd suffer that kind of fate.
I had a guy come over from England.He was amazed that
the strut towers on my cars were original.That's normal here.
- Doug
Several reports regarding Toyotas are that the engine won't turn off when you turn the ignition switch off. Putting car in neutral or any other gear doesn't help either. The lady who testified in Congress the other day told this story. She could not stop her car for over 6 miles. It finally stopped on its own (or God stopped it as she said). The problem isn't stupid floor mats or needing a steel bar under the throttle pedal. These cars just have too much electrically controlled stuff. Now some cars have electric steering so they don't have to design a steering column. The first thing that usually goes bad in cars nowadays is wiring related electrical issues. If you are going to use this new technology in cars, it dang better well last the life of the car and they don't design them that way. Never have.
My wife bought an 07 Solara last summer just before all this hit the air waves. Now it appears this has been happening for years. Think I will ever buy another Toyota?
My wife bought an 07 Solara last summer just before all this hit the air waves. Now it appears this has been happening for years. Think I will ever buy another Toyota?
Westfield_XI
Jedi Warrior
Offline
Could someone post a list of new cars that DO NOT have throttle by wire?