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Morris Garages... Morris

StevenA

Jedi Trainee
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This is a 2 part question. Morris Garages is of course MG and MG is now back to MG Car Company from its many ownerships. Morris (ie Morris Minor etc.) was assumed to have at one time been part of Morris Garages; but I am not certain of that... Was it? And... Who owns "Morris" now (is it part of MG Car Company?)? I guess that is three questions.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif
 

Sherlock

Yoda
Country flag
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Morris came first... the first car was developed for production around the 1912/1913 period

MG... the first sports car built by Cecil Kimber (around Morris mechanicals) was in the early 1920's, by 1923 - with some competition success - more people wanted these cars so some limited production started, throughout the 1920's MG grew, there was direct financial support from the Morris car company, the company itself "MG" was registered in 1928,

That's a quick sketch of the early history...
 
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StevenA

Jedi Trainee
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Thanks... I had a dream about Hybrids (must have been a flashback) and thought of Morris. If BMW is now the owner of Cooper name plate (selling quite well) and there is a new MG Car Company (selling OK in Europe). Wouldn't it be fun if Morris would re-emerge as a "Minor looking" vehicle with a hybrid base? I dream too much... that is why I own LBCs and spend every hour of my time off sitting in them (in the driveway and garage mostly)... Dreaming of the open road and "what if".
 

Nunyas

Yoda
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yeah... i like to dream a little too... for instance... what if they started exporting this MG to the US.....
 
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StevenA

Jedi Trainee
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Sure, Like that will ever happen... It is only a figment of OUR collective imaginations. There is no new MG... it was all done with mirrors. The MG that became the BMW was last seen in a James Bond movie... that was a hint.

AND the Lotus Elise??? Is now a Toyota Elise.

The 2000/01/02/03/04 MGs that are in Europe will arrive as Fords. Ford will purchase the MG Car Co., call them Pinto IIs, re-chrome & trim them as Mini-Mustangs, and have a Honda 2Cylinder air-cooled engine with air-conditioning and Auto everything.
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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MG does not stand for Morris Garage. It stands for MG. The letters "MG" are a tribute to Morris Garages but do not actually stand for them. Properly written, there are periods in the letters making it appear like this:

M.G. Car Company
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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Quoted from the M.G. Driver's Club Magazine web site:

Here is a letter from the Postbag of MG Enthusiast magazine in 1992. It is self-explanatory and an important piece of MG history.

"Regarding the dots in M.G. as I started this particular ball rolling with my letter to Auto Classic magazine, my thoughts on this matter may be of interest as they involve a personal conversation with Mr. Kimber himself, some sixty years ago.

First let me dispel the 'experts' who doubt Mrs. Cook's (Jean Kimber Cook, daughter of Cecil Kimber, founder of the M.G. Car Company) comments - she is absolutely correct in stating that 'M.G. does not stand for Morris Garages.' As regards the dots, however, they are there for a particular reason which I will come to later.

Despite what numerous books and commentators say, the truth of the matter is that Mr. Kimber, in pursuit of a name for his inspired cars, chose the M from Morris and the G from Garages as a tribute to his employer - Billy Morris, they were not abbreviations. Had anyone dated to suggest to him that they were shorthand initials for Morris Garages, he would have given them 'flea in the ear' pointing out there already was a Morris Garages - how could there be two?

At an R.A.C. awards dinner in the Thirties, Mr. Kimber, as our guest of hour, made quite clear to all present that he wanted it known that M.G. stood just for itself - 'The British Sports Car.' I was there (and still have the signed menu card) and it came from the man himself! His daughter - Mrs. Cook - also related this fact in your April/May '88 issue.

As to the famed dots, my friend M.E.L. Gosling - a motorcyclist, having been informed the M.&G. were not shortened, queried the use of the dots; Mr. Kimber told us it was simply a matter of design - more visually attractive, and no other reason. It was confusing then, as now, however, and no-one would dare to take on the master. We later studied the factory literature of the time, and agreed - he was right! 'That which Mr. Kimber joined together, let no editor or tired typesetter put asunder.' If it was good enough for the boss of M.G. it should be good enough for the rest of us.

You are not alone in your ignorance of these important points: witness the new signs outside the M.G. Car Club premises in Abingdon - no dots - someone has slipped up, and they really should know better. This is not the first time the club has abandoned its history - only since the arrival of previous magazine editors, was the exclamation mark following 'Safety Fast!' returned to its rightful place; again this is an important piece of M.G. history and is there for a reason.

The excellent centrespread in your September 1991 issue is how it should be done - or are these just dots in front of my ancient eyes? You can do it when you try! Today's printing technology can easily be programmed to include the dots in M.G. and exclude them from MGB etc., it is simple, if you care enough.

May this octogenarian offer some advice to all the young bloods? Do not ignore your marque heritage, that is what made it great. If required, I will gladly dip into my pension to fund glucose tablets for your typesetter, and blobs of paint for the M.G. Car Club signs, along with a copy of "M.G. by McComb", wherein on each page, you will see how the letters should be presented when not in the octagon.

Congratulations to Mr. Barry Foster for his spirited response (Aug. '91): was it really such a short letter - or had you cut it? Here's hoping he can work the magic on Mr. Kimber's own club.

Finally, on the subject of the dots: your own magazine, while not having the benefit of the octagon on the front cover, would, as Mr. Kimber intimated, impart more visual impact with bold stops in place - after all, what is an Enthusiast?

Before I go chasing the other Brooklands lads, upstairs - where engines do not break, and fuel is free - do me and Mr. Kimber's memory a favour: remember that the mists of time have a habit of obscuring the facts, so shun the self-proclaimed experts, become a purist and stand out from the crowd and proudly state - 'M.G. stands for itself - not Morris Garages, and the dots are there as a matter of design only.'
 

Frazier

Senior Member
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Steve, I appreciate the history lesson, but that's about as clear as mud. The M was from Mr. Morris, the G was from Garages, but M.G. did not stand for Morris Garages? I guess I'll just have to accept it.

Frazier
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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The letters 'M' and 'G' were chosen as a tribue to William Morris and his company, Morris Garages. They do not directly stand for "Morris Garage'. As the author said, how could there be two Morris Garages? One company was Morris Garage and the other M.G. It would be the same as naming a company FMC as a tribute to Ford Motor Company. There can't be two Ford Motor Companies but there can be one, and another company called FMC, being completely unrelated to Ford.

The letters were chosen because of Cecil Kimber's fondness of William Morris just as you might name your child 'Bobby' after your childhood mentor 'Robert'. There is still debate on this issue, but among most of the die-hard MG enthusiasts the acceptable explaination of the name is the one given by Cecil Kimber's daughter who heard her father explain it many times.
 
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StevenA

Jedi Trainee
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After all the commets... the main question was... "What about Morris" as in Morris Minor? Does it exist anywhere under any name? The group of VERY bland sedans from MG or M.G. or or Honk Kong Candy Company are not going to sell. The roadster (another debate will ensue on "what is a roadster... and what is a sports car")is the only model in which I would be interested.

Define "sports car"... my definition does not include anything from Japan (Supras, Spiders etc) or U.S. of A. (ie Mustangs and Corvettes). I stored the link from "USASMA" and will use it; thanks.

PS... Just sitting here recovering from heart surgery and feeling like working on an LBC... BUT can't yet.
Cheers, StevenA
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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Technically a sports car is a car used in sports, as in racing. But most people would have a rough time calling many cars "sports cars" despite their racing history. Many British saloons including the YB model in my sig below were raced and there were even official classes for them but they were not designed for performance so much as for a comfortable and practical way to haul the wife and kids to church.

There are many, many ways to catagorize vehicles and decide what is a sports car and what is not. My definition of a sports car is a vehicle where handling performance is paramount over raw engine power. For that reason I don't consider many "sports" models true sports cars so much as I consider them muscle cars. A true-blooded sports car will allow a driver to fully utilize his / her potential as a driver and not simply rely on horsepower to make up for mistakes. But that's just my 2.5 cents USD. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

aeronca65t

Great Pumpkin
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SteveA:
Best wishes on speedy recovery! (but don't get *too* anxious....your LBC will wait). One of my younger brothers (37) is having heart-valve work next month. He's anxious to get working on his "new" MG, but I told him it can wait too....meanwhile I have the keys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

Re: "sports cars"....it seems that automotive advertising and marketing uses this name for almost *anything* these days.
In a related point, some purists would call a Bugeye a "roadster" but a '67 Sprite a "sports car".
 

Steve_S

Yoda
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I believe the roadster versus convertible debate boils down to a few details which only die-hard old-timers would dare to argue. One tidbit I can remember is that a true roadster does not have wind-up windows. If I'm not mistaken there is also an issue with a folding top, as "true" roadsters had something completely removable or something to that effect. In a purist sense, a MGB is not a roadster but I'm sure Abingdon called it one to appease the large groups of sports car enthusiasts who thought the car was no longer a "real" sports car. Heck, these same people scorned the MGA when it came out too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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