Fun with wheel bearings...

[Luke_Healey]

I popped off my hubcaps to examing my wheel bearings tonight and I'm at a loss as to what to do.

The driver's side outter bearing seems to be installed backwards to me (thick face of outter bearing facing outward..)

Also, on both sides, the castleated nut was only finger tightened and then backed off to the nearest available castle dip. When I tightened each nut to 45 ft/lb, the wheels would not spin freely. So what's the story with that? I have not verified that my car has it's spinder spacers in there yet. Do the bearings pull out easily, or will I have to remove the brake calipers to get an eye on the interior of the hub?

My next observation was that the bearings are not even the same. So apparently one side of the car has been serviced at a different time than the other. They each had a spacer/washer thing between the nut and bearing. I removed those for these photos to show the inner races.

Driver's side:

Passenger's side (wheel still on hub):

So, I'm looking for opinions on any immediate avenues to persue. I'd like to ensure that the car quits shaking at about 53mph and becoming very unstable in a corner. The tie rod ends are tight, as is the steering rack (seemingly.) Do I keep using these bearings? Is there any way to tell if they are bad? Why do they bind up at proper torque spec?

 

[mixbugeye]

definatly loooks like it has been installed the wrong way
id be pulling both sides off and checking the inner bearings aswell probably worth a new set

 

[racingenglishcars]

The driver side may not be installed backwards, though it may appear as such because of the thick edge of the outer race. They are after all ball bearings and can be made this way.

There are supposed to be adjuster shims along with the spacers. When the nut is tightened down the inner races, spacer and adjuster shims take up the force of the nut. The inner races are therefore held completely tight. If the spacers are missing, the inner race pulls the balls against the outer race and pulls that against the hub. Everything binds up. If too many spacers are used, there becomes free play between the outer races and the hub and the wheel will be a little loose.

Technically you could install it without the spacer and tighten the nut to a reasonable pre-torque. It is my understanding though, that being ball bearings instead of taper roller bearings, it would be almost impossible to obtain and hold the right pre-torque. You are much better off with spacers, shims and high torque.

The only way to tell if the bearings are servicable is to take them out and look / feel if they are good. Unless they are so bad that you can feel roughness when you spin the wheel.

 

[Sportsdoc]

I would pull both sides and replace the bearings. Two kits including all bearings and seals are about $100 so I think it's well worth it.


Richard
66 Sprite restoration in progress

 

[Luke_Healey]

Do any of you have any examples or part numbers of the inner shim washers? I notice that VB and Moss don't list them on the catalog pages with the wheel bearing stuff??

I'm going to order two kits from VB. Better safe than in the ditch.

 

[JerryB]

"""""""Also, on both sides, the castleated nut was only finger tightened and then backed off to the nearest available castle dip""""""""

way wrong.


""""""They each had a spacer/washer thing between the nut and bearing. """"""

Thats correct.....that is a outer thrust washer that the nut bears against.

Completely different from the inner shims and the distance piece.

Inner shims arent serviced by the usual suspects...and neither is the distance pieces if one (or both ) are missing. McMaster-Carr for inner shims.

You might be getting in over your head here. Use the shop manual and ask a lot of questions when you get everything apart.

 

[tosoutherncars]

I'd add, as you mention getting loose in the corners... topping up the Armstrong dampers, and greasing the whole suspension as per the manual (i.e. while unloaded) may help to tighten things up, once you've correctly installed new bearings.

 

[Luke_Healey]

Yeah, with everything tightened to 45 ft/lb the car still behaves the same. The front shocks are in need of attention. They look like new, since they were replaced in 1989, but they are 'wet' in the armpits, so probably low on fluid. I'll look to see how to fill them properly.

 

[jlaird]

The real way to fix em for all time is to have Peter C rebuild em. Life time stuff.

 

[Guest]

I had no cotter keys in mine. Good thing I'm checking this stuff before I put it on the road. I was lucky to get by with a repack and new seals.

It took me londger to do the rack and pinion boot replacement. I'm amazed at the rocket science that went into how somebody was able to get them boots onto a rack and their choice of clamps. This was truly beyond fitting a square peg in a round hole- they fitted a boot that is 3/8th's inch in diameter over a nut that's 1" in diameter. . I'm impressed. I was massively [censored] off too. It took an entire day just to get that freekin thing on.

Truly amazing since the Brits didn't even have a space program back then. I ended up ripping the entire rack out of the car so I could clean up the rack assembly and get the boots and the clamps on correctly. Lots of synthetic grease will make anything fit on to anything, almost.. one time I squeezed four feet of throttle cable through a silicone hose that way.

The guy before me had no concept of a torque wrench either- perhaps a good idea that I went through the bottom end of the motor. This guys confessions as to what he had done to unsieze the motor in this car led me to double checking his work- and ultimately deciding that I better go through every nut, bolt and clearance issue in this car

 

[Sportsdoc]

The real way to fix em for all time is to have Peter C rebuild em. Life time stuff.

I have my two front shocks on the way from Peter C today! That is the way to go.

 

[jlaird]

Upon reflection I don't think I would even ever try to fill a shock. Off to Peter if I have any issues at all. It is just not worth the hasel when he is available.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

"they fitted a boot that is 3/8th's inch in diameter over a nut that's 1" in diameter. ."

I replaced a set of those on a spitfire last year. Here's the trick. Have the people helping you try it first. While they are struggling with it, continue your work on other projects and taunt them. Tell them it is simple and "keep trying". After they are exhausted and frustrated then you can go slip the boot into place because they've stretched the rubber out and relaxed it but you are fresh. Then grin and say "what was so hard about that?" /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

PS it also helps to use the curved metal handle of a small pair of pliers to stretch it over and around. As much fun as the E-clips on the rear brake cylinders.

 

[Luke_Healey]

the e-clips that came with my new wheel cylinders were too 'fat' to fit in there right. I had to hammer them into place with a flathead screwdriver and bend them a bit.

The original circlips are the way to go, but they rustweld into place... I broke my circlip pliers trying to get them off.

 

[Luke_Healey]

Though I didn't take photos (my hands were covered in nasty grease) I discovered that the inner wheel bearing on my driver's side is a tapered roller bearing. The spacer piece is still there, thankfully. The outter bearing is that FAG 7303B. I'm pretty sure that's a bearing with a thrust side and it was installed backwards. Since I had no way to pull the tapered bearing off of the spindle tonight I put everything back together such that I flipped the 7303 around the other way. Under 40 ft/lb, the wheel still turns. This way the pull of the balls is against the thicker outter race.

I imagine having two different types of bearings like this is bad right? I did get my VB bearings via UPS today, so I can change them out any time. Flipping the bearing around has smoothed out my 55mph shudder quite noticibly, but it's still there. The car does feel more stable.

My rear bearings need attention. The seals have gone bad, slathering them in 80/90 gear oil for who knows how long. I don't have a wrench big enough to undo them.. What is it, 1 7/8"??