Failure on Initial Engine Start After Rebuild

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Went through the engine on the phone with the builder and verified TDC( Compression stroke) and alignment of pulley notch. He says it right. The shop is Vellios in Manhattan beach, and I know a few of my local club members have had work done there. Ran into an interesting problem with my new plug wire set , in that I cant reach plug #2 with my wires and my new distributor setting, so kind of annoyed that this new set from Moss doesn't have enough long wires to do this .

If I understand your situation correctly they don't reach because the distributor is 180 out. When you reorient the leads, ignoring the wire numbers, they should reach.

 

[ozhealey]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Keith,

Which leads did you buy? I have the pertronix and purchased the magnecor wires from Moss. They dont quite reach on a couple of cylinders. Moss agreed to refund once I pointed out they were selling the TR6 version (even says so on the Moss box) from Magnecor as a Healey part and the Healey version (which Magnecor manufacture) is not stocked by Moss. There website does not point this out. While some people seem to make the BJ8 distributor leads fit (according to Moss) the earlier distributor in a BJ7 and prior absolutely do not fit regardless of distributor orientation. I tried the Moss magnecor leads on my mate’s BJ8 and they DID NOT fit his car either. I got the Healey version direct from Magnecor and they fit beautifully and work an absolute treat.

I should point out Moss did quickly refund me and were very apologetic. They still have not changed their stock or pointed out this issue though.

Cheers

 

[RAC68]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Hi All,

After having so much difficulty and disappointment with Moss parts, I ordered my Magnecor plug wires directly from them on-line at (https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm) and was pleased with their response and, more importantly, the correct part was delivered. I just checked their catalogue and found it to be a little confusing. The have 2 6 cylinder Healey listings with the first dated 1975-1968 for a set with push on distributor caps and a second 1968-1955 for a set that pushes into the cap and secured by a penetrating screw-in lead (our standard cap). Footnotes 2 and 3 present this difference.

Ray(64BJ8P1)

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Keith
Thanks that's the problem, I have the Magnecor wires,and wondered about the TR6 info. Ordering from Magnecor directly today

 

[steveg]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Can someone post a picture of the Magnecor wires on the Healey?

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

If anyone has replaced their distributor recently, on their BJ8 can you take a quick look at these pictures.

I have tried the following distributor drive positions with #1 Cyl at TDC (Compression); 1st what is recommended in the big green manual and also in the Hayes manual for the Distributor drive l rotor position and

2. what is recommended in a Moss Motors article for BJ8 with electronic Tach, as these care have a different distributor than prior models. Distributor drive position
and rotor position.

 

[red57]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Either of those should work to run the engine as long as the #1 plug wire is over the rotor arm and 153624 firing order. The only reason for the alternate drive orientation is that because you don't have a mechanical tack drive under the dizzy, it sits much closer to the block and there are physical interferences with the dizzy and other ancillary components making it difficult to achieve correct timing (particularly if you had the type of vacuum canister that has the fitting straight out of the end, but it looks like you can get a pretty good swing with your set-up). I don't have a BJ8 but I'd guess the alternate is the better way to go.
Dave​

 

[vette]

Re: trouble on 1st start

I agree with Red 57 either way will work as long as the spark plug wires reach. The first set up will usually ensure that the spark plug wires will reach. imo

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Dave
Thanks for the quick response. I thought this should be the case, as both settings I can use my timing light and show spark at #1 at TDC. will keep working on it and let every one know what happens.

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

OK here is an update. Still having problems. I pulled the pistons off of the carbs and tried some starting fluid directly into the manifold, still no start. I think you guys are right and I still have timing/ignition issue and not a fuel issue. I measured voltage to the + post on the coil and have 12.8 Volts. I am now cleaning all of the connections and wiring to the Coil back through the fuse and ignition switch and making sure my grounding is good. I am using a timing light to verify my ignition timing at tdc and i will keep trying rotating the distributor and cranking till I get some ignition.

 

[Healey Nut]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Ok GW your going to have to start litening to the advice on here .
HAVE YOU VERIFIED THEY WHEN #1 PISTON IS AT TDC BOTH THE INLET AND EXHAUST VALVES ARE CLOSED !!!!!!
until you have proved this to be the case no amount of changing ignition parts and positions and squirting easy start into it is going to make it start .
you could light a bomb under it it still wont start if the valve timing is off . You only need to off by one tooth on the valve gear and it will not start .

 

[red57]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Gadwhite,
Healey Nut is correct, cam timing is critical and using a degree wheel is the only way to know cam timing for sure but it is tough to do on an assembled engine - so how about doing a compression test?
Not sure if it will prove that the valve timing is correct but if you have good compression readings, it will be a good sign.
Dave

 

[Jim 58 BN6]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Ok GW your going to have to start litening to the advice on here .
HAVE YOU VERIFIED THEY WHEN #1 PISTON IS AT TDC BOTH THE INLET AND EXHAUST VALVES ARE CLOSED !!!!!!
until you have proved this to be the case no amount of changing ignition parts and positions and squirting easy start into it is going to make it start .
you could light a bomb under it it still wont start if the valve timing is off . You only need to off by one tooth on the valve gear and it will not start .

Exactly. With #1 @ TDC, they are both closed on the COMPRESSION stroke - where the ignition timing is referenced - not the end of the exhaust stroke (also @ TDC).

Sorry if I am repeating what you already know, but you need to start here before going down the other rabbit holes!

 

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Guys--

Gladwhite doesn't have to take our advice but he also might not get any more of it!

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Yep did verified using finger over spark plug hole as engine turns over as a basic test, but can quickly pull the valve cover and check manually. I will take a picture

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Understood guys. Will check tonight

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

OK pulled valve cover and set to TDC, here is a picture of the valve position for #1 Cyl, both valves closed


And the engine with timing mark. I also rotated 180 and here is the valve position at that setting.

 

[Jim 58 BN6]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Thanks for the pictures. In #1 do the rockers have a bit of clearance to the valve stems? Also, I assume you rotated 360 degrees (TDC again), not 180? Jim

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Thanks for the pictures. In #1 do the rockers have a bit of clearance to the valve stems? Also, I assume you rotated 360 degrees (TDC again), not 180? Jim

Jim yes you are correct it was 360, right back to where the mark is on the pointer again, (The distributor rotor then becomes 180 off of TDC)

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Can someone post a picture of the Magnecor wires on the Healey?

I got this from Moss tech dept ,after I complained about my set. Note how tight #1 and #2 wire are. I don't think this is optimal. I am doing some research on Magnecors site, as I think I got TR6 wires.