Failure on Initial Engine Start After Rebuild

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Gadwhite--

The reason I asked yesterday if you had contacted the person who did the rebuild is that it is looking more and more like the cam timing is incorrect and if so no amount of adjusting and testing on your part is going to make things right.

Respectfully, assuming someone other than you (or your buddies, etc) did the rebuild it's time for you to contact that person and tell them of your issues.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Maybe there was some confusion about the bright links description in the manual, and the last new timing chain I installed wasn't so equipped. Now, I keep an old original one around for reference, though you could count the links from the picture (not the same as if you lined up the dots).

Unlike some engines, aligning dots on the cam & crank sprockets with a straight-edge isn't going to get the job done on a Healey.
EDIT: if you go to this hi-res version, and enlarge it (click on the opened pic) you can see the dots marked on the sprockets.
https://spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/albums/LS_BN4_engine_build/IMG_1084.jpg?m=1304384677

Want to be sure? THEN CHECK IT!

 

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

I think we can safely assume that Randy was not the rebuilder.

 

[vette]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Gadwhite, the reason that i recommended going back to points and condenser is that I have had experience where the electronic module did not provide a consistent or healthy spark. You might see a spark at the plugs but during my experiences with it it seems it could not fire or ignite the mixture. I don't know why I just know it happened. to me it is much easier to just make this small change than to start to take the engine apart. So what I am saying is do the easy stuff first. Maybe you will have to go deeper but in my book I'd do the easy stuff first. Dave.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Re: trouble on 1st start

I think we can safely assume that Randy was not the rebuilder.

Not this time, though I'm at a loss as to why he can't get it fired up; hope he gets somebody over there to look at it, and give us some closure

BTW, cat seemed to make a pretty full recovery, doing all her cat-routines again, like nothing ever happened (though, she's still some 20 yrs old...).

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Thanks for all the advice. I am working out off state this week so Haven't been available to work on the car. The distributor is new. I have not contacted the engine builder who did my short block, so the cam thing is worisome. The good thing is this weekend I have a meet to attend and can probably round up a couple of the old timers to come over and have a look at my car

 

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Randy--

Glad the cat recovered--now only 8 lives left.

Sorry you missed Sebring. I had a couple of good sessions on Saturday but had to come in early on Sunday as car started to overheat, plus I was having a hard time downshifting into 1st about 1/2 the time, the other times no problem --strange

 

[Keith_M]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Thanks for all the advice. I am working out off state this week so Haven't been available to work on the car. The distributor is new. I have not contacted the engine builder who did my short block, so the cam thing is worisome. The good thing is this weekend I have a meet to attend and can probably round up a couple of the old timers to come over and have a look at my car

Please let us know what happens. Many of us (well, at least me) are interested in the outcome and learn from these puzzles.

keith

 

[elrey]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Please let us know what happens. Many of us (well, at least me) are interested in the outcome and learn from these puzzles.

keith

I'm with Keith in the desire for you to stay with us throughout the entire process of starting your engine. One can gain quite an education from the trials of others. Thank you for looking here for answers, as we all benefit from your quest.

 

[MarkP]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Go back to ground zero and verify mechanical timing by pulling valve cover, ensuring both #1 intake and exhaust valves are closed when #1 piston is on compression stroke and at TDC, checking that distributor is correctly installed. Do NOT start rotating distributor 180deg as a solution. Only proceed to electrical timing once mechanical timing is validated.

A few good write-ups from the MGA camp

Finding TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC) Casually
Finding TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC) More Precisely
Finding TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC) Spot-On Accurate

 

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Gadwhite--

I echo was others have said and I hope you feel we are here for you as witness the great amount of sage advice and encouragement that has come your way.

Assuming the issue is valve timing, and it seems like it is, I'll reiterate what I said in post 41--unless there is some reason you do not feel comfortable contacting the engine builder I think you are doing his work for him. This would not be the first time that an engine assembler--professional or amateur--has gotten it wrong for some reason but no amount of fiddling with the ignition on your part is going to fix the issue, nor should you have to be going through all of this.

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Michael
agreed on Monday I will reach out it engine builder. I did try something today that may have gotten me a little further. It turns out the distributor drive position for the BJ8 is different than the manual recommends. The BJ8 has an electronic tach vs the mechanical and all of his time I had my distributor set at 10:20. Recommendation for BJ8 tach is to set distributor drive at 5:05. This allows the vacuum advance to clear the oil filter. I have attached the picture

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Yes . Don’t worry I will definatly let everyone know what I find out.

 

[mgtf328]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Hm, I think you also need to ensure that the distributor has been put back the right way round while you're at it. I would remove the rocker cover turn the crank in the normal direction of rotation until No 1 is at the top of it's COMPRESSION and not exhaust stroke which is when No 6 exhaust valve is just closing and the inlet is opening. No 1 should just be firing. Check this in the manual. Sorry if you've already done this but it won't start if the timing is 180 degs out.
AJ

 

[Michael Oritt]

Re: trouble on 1st start

If the distributor is 180 out you can still get the car to start in the short run merely by reconnecting the spark plug leads to the proper cylinders, etc to reflect the "revised" firing order--assuming the leads are long enough to reach the plugs. Is your distributor cap a top or side lead and if the latter which way do the plug leads face--up towards the engine or down towards the ground? Where is the rotor pointing when @#1 is at TDC?

The distributor will only engage the drive in one fashion and the proper thing to do is of course reorient the distributor drive. Again if this was done by your engine builder and he can easily b e brought into the picture I think you are doing his work for him. This is not that uncommon a mistake and when I bought my 100 it had the distributor 180 out and wired appropriately to compensate for the error (if that is the right terminology).

 

[bob hughes]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Absolutely Michael

You can have the dizzy at any position you want as long as you compensate it with the correct wiring into the cap. I have moved mine by moving the drive slot around on the cam and hence for the dog at the bottom of the dizzy so that the Vacuum section misses the steering shaft.



Bob

 

[Gadwhite]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Went through the engine on the phone with the builder and verified TDC( Compression stroke) and alignment of pulley notch. He says it right. The shop is Vellios in Manhattan beach, and I know a few of my local club members have had work done there. Ran into an interesting problem with my new plug wire set , in that I cant reach plug #2 with my wires and my new distributor setting, so kind of annoyed that this new set from Moss doesn't have enough long wires to do this .

 

[Healey Nut]

Re: trouble on 1st start

And what were the valve positions for #1 cylinder when the piston was at TDC ?

 

[Mike Tobin]

Re: trouble on 1st start

No one's mentioned vacuum. Need that too. I'm tracing that on my rebuild-won't-start. Spark and compression everywhere. Timing on the mark. Vacuum at each manifold (minus the carb) but not with the front two carbs installed (they seem airtight).

 

[Keith_M]

Re: trouble on 1st start

Went through the engine on the phone with the builder and verified TDC( Compression stroke) and alignment of pulley notch. He says it right. The shop is Vellios in Manhattan beach, and I know a few of my local club members have had work done there. Ran into an interesting problem with my new plug wire set , in that I cant reach plug #2 with my wires and my new distributor setting, so kind of annoyed that this new set from Moss doesn't have enough long wires to do this .

Just because the the pulley notch lines up with TDC doesn't mean the cam timing is right. HealeyNut is correct; you need to look at the valves.

Also, the fact that the wires from Moss don't work is worrying. I have no financial interest in Moss, but I doubt that they would be selling something as common as plug wires that don't fit. That said, if this is a known issue, someone on this forum will know about it. I'm always amazed at the collective knowledge.

Keith