• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

Europa with Mazda Rotary engine

Share this page

R6MGS

R6MGS

Yoda
Offline
So I was on my way home the other day and happened to spot a europa behind a warehouse...So I did a little detective work to find the owner...cars been sitting for 4 years, owner wants 2500 bucks for it...Problem is; it's got a mazda rotary in it. It apparently ran when parked, body is really good, interior is mint...Not sure about anything else cuz I don't know much about these things. Anyway...What do you guys think?? Is it worth anything without the proper motor??(tranny is original)
 
I'd be concerned over the transaxle... What'd they have to do to it so they could mate a Mazda to it... and is/was it a Renault car or a later T/C one?
With the proper engine they are amazing cars. With the rotary it's the equivalent of a Chevy V-8 in a Jag, IMO. Value gone for a chop.
 
If the condition is as described, it's probably not a bad deal. My guess is that they would even be willing to negotiate on the price to have it gone.

The rotary is a good swap, but if the engine doesn't run or you don't want the rotary, sell it off and get one of the kits to install an engine from the Toyota 4AGE family. The rotary is one of the engines that won't affect the value of the Europa too much; maybe even desirable. Barry Spencer in the Bay Area has one in his D-mod car. He took that class at the SCCA Solo Nationals a few years back.

You didn't say whether it is an S1, S2 or TC, but for the money, you almost can't go wrong. Other engine options are the Lotus TC (depending on what model this is), 2.0l Zetec which bolts right up to the TC bell housing, the 2.3l Duratec and of course, going back the the Renault motor if it's an S1 or S2.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] You didn't say whether it is an S1, S2 or TC, but for the money, you almost can't go wrong. Other engine options are the Lotus TC (depending on what model this is), 2.0l Zetec which bolts right up to the TC bell housing, the 2.3l Duratec and of course, going back the the Renault motor if it's an S1 or S2. [/QUOTE]

That's where I was going with the question. Maybe a cross-flow head, Kent block. IF it's a notched car.
 
In my experience with Europas, by the time you were finished, it would have been cheaper to buy one that was already roadworthy.
 
Depends on WHO ya KNOW, Jody! :wink:
 
Well, I am really not sure what model it is....I couldn't find anything on it to tell, cuz it's the first time I've ever really looked at one. It did have rims on it that very closely resembled the mgb le/stag rims..would that mean anything??
They seem very negotiable on the price??What do you guys think you be a 'good price'..considering the last thing i need now is another old brit car.
 
Are the buttresses running from the rear of the roof straight to the back or do they have a "notch" to facilitate rearward vision? If it has the reduced buttresses it WAS a twincam car. That would influence my decision a LOT. Electric windows?


If you can get a chassis number that'll tell us what it was.
 
I don't remember 100%, but I think I am gunna call him tomorrow and make some kinda offer. My TR6 auction on ebay ends tonight, so that will have some influence over how badly I want this....So far with 6 is a few hundred bucks from reserve with a few hours left to go.
 
Well, if it's an early car, no matter WHAT engine is in it, it'll break your heart. If it was a TwinCam car, it can be made to be a riot. They ~ARE~ that different. Pedigree it before you jump!
 
DrEntropy said:
Well, if it's an early car, no matter WHAT engine is in it, it'll break your heart. If it was a TwinCam car, it can be made to be a riot.
Click to expand...

Doc - could you elaborate on that a bit? I've been eying 'ropas for a long time without really knowing the difference in them.(they often seem to go for bargain prices) If this car was in my neighborhood I prolly would've bought it - not really knowing what I was getting.
 
Okay, the caveat first: this is MY opinion, mmmkay?


<span style="font-style: italic">The early cars had the body bonded to the frame. A "negative" IMO. They had fixed windows, I.E. no way to pay tolls, etc.

Renault engine/trans... French(!)... another negative to me. SAE it ain't. The Kent based Twin Cam is a MUCH better engine for my taste... not to mention more power.

Drum brakes inna rear... feh. WHAT was he THINKIN'?!?

High buttresses, REALLY limited rearward vision, mirrors are only half helpful. </span>

Those are a few of what I consider the 'down-sides' of the early cars. With one in front of me I would pro'lly come up with more :wink:
 
In regards to drum brakes:

All the europas had inboard drums - even the TC.

heck, so did the Elite, Eclat, and S1 Esprit.

They aren't that bad - the stop the car well enough for the power it originally put down and, in the case of the europa, are pretty easy to get to. The are also surprisingly hard to lock up.

The reason drums where used was to save weight - similar to the F1 cars of the time. The outboard disk systems of the era where much heavier then inboard and lotus is all about saving weight. The probably could have used inboard disks (like XJ6 / XJS jags), but chose drums.

For everythinge else - I agree with Doc :smile: -- Get an S2 or TC.

Of course, you could always get one with a blown engine and throw a rover V8 in it. How that would be fun, figuring it weighs the same as the TC.
 
I shoulda said the early cars had "small" drums inna rear. T/C had REAL rear brakes. :wink:
 
That I will agree on :smile:

You could mount T/C (or Spitfire as that is what they are) rear brakes on a S1, but really - just get an S2 or TC. Live with less pain.

-bp
 
I've a couple sets of shoes here, NOS. Can't recall if they're for a TC or the French cars...

I ~NEED~ to go thru all that *stuff* and get rid of the non-Elan bits.

Anybody want ONE Dunloop NOS wire wheel for an early Elite? :devilgrin:
 
I actually quite like the "concept" of a S1 - the lghtest, lowest and least practical of the Europas. Not sure if I'd actually want to own one though. The Renault lump wasn't so bad, an all-alloy unit, with removable cylinder sleeves. And with a Gordini cross-flow head & Webber carb, performance was pretty darn respectable. And the high rear buttresses and dash layout were cool too IMHO. But am happy to stick with my TCS.

Rob.
 
Well, I looked at a few limited pics I could find on google, and I've determined the car I am looking at has to be a later model, with the cut down rear for visibility. The other thing I am not sure about is I am like 90% sure that car I looked at had no rear bumper, but all the pics I've found the cars have big chrome rear bumpers?
Anyway, I did call the owner of the vehicle, he's owned it 12 years...2nd owner, drove it with the mazda motor for 4 years, but stopped driving it because it now needs some tranny work. The interior(which looks very good to me) is original black and red two/tone leather...and he seems pretty negotiable on price, he was busy so we didn't talk long...I forgot to ask what year/model it is. The motor however is a 13B(?) Rotary from a 86 Rx-7.
The TR6 auction ended with a new buyer...so if all goes well that will be gone in a week or so, thus freeing up some space....I've got a busy work week ahead though, so it's going to be at least a week or so before I can really check out the europa, the owner of the shop it's sitting at has the keys and I've now got permission to open it and nose around whenever I please...so when I do I'll report back.
 
I think there might be some confusion/misinformation here about the Europa brakes. No Europa ever came with inboard rear brakes (except maybe the 47, but that is a different animal). As for brake sizes, all Europas had the same size front discs from the Spitfire. Europas (S1, S2 & TC) all had the same size rear brakes (drum), except the TC Special, they were the same diameter, but .25" wider.
 
Back
Top