California Emissions + 1980 MKIV 1500

[AngliaGT]

There used to be a CA law that said that if you were unable to
find replacement parts,or they would cost over a certain amount of$$$,
you could get an exemption.I don't know if that still applies.
The law also reads that you are supposed to contact CA DMV within
(i believe)10 upon the vehicle entering the state.
If you've already started any paperwork with the DMV,I'd just go
in,be honest,& see what you have to do to get it to comply.You just might
be surprised.

- Doug

 

[TR3driver]

There used to be a CA law that said that if you were unable to
find replacement parts,or they would cost over a certain amount of$$$,
you could get an exemption.I don't know if that still applies.

I believe it's still there, but the amount is much higher than it used to be, and the exemption is only good for 2 years (one smog inspection).

Also, it never did apply in cases where the original smog equipment had been removed.

 

[Gafirema]

Update: Need a response ASAP please!

The guy who sold it to me may have the original parts (like the carburetor) that were originally on the car. If I put those on, will it be legal emissions wise? I'm not asking if it will pass smog, it might need more work, I'm just asking if it has the original equipment if it will be legal or if I need anything else that is special. Also, you guys are saying it's illegal to put on a used Cat-Converter, is it legal to have a brand new one put on? I think I found one online for $150. Also, if there is the original Cat-Converter on it, won't it still work?

Thank you everyone.

 

[TR3driver]

The guy who sold it to me may have the original parts (like the carburetor) that were originally on the car. If I put those on, will it be legal emissions wise? I'm not asking if it will pass smog, it might need more work, I'm just asking if it has the original equipment if it will be legal or if I need anything else that is special.

Should be good, provided he has all the bits that were removed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Also, you guys are saying it's illegal to put on a used Cat-Converter, is it legal to have a brand new one put on?[/QUOTE]Of course.

I also still don't believe it is illegal for you to install a used converter yourself, on your car (provided it is the "right" converter and it gets tested). But I'm not a lawyer and that is not legal advice, so you have to make your own decision.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] I think I found one online for $150.[/QUOTE]Check with your local independent muffler shop; they may be able to beat that price by the time you include installation and shipping. Also, it needs to be the "right" converter, and some eBay sellers are a bit too casual about what fits what.

PS, I've not tried it myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if many shops will refuse to install a converter that you bring in yourself. Just too much liability if it turns out to be the wrong one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] if there is the original Cat-Converter on it, won't it still work? [/QUOTE]
Maybe, maybe not. Only way to tell is to get it all done, then run it through a smog test.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

New is legal, but make sure it's got the EPA sticker on it, not just some sleaned-up POS.
Carb.
FACTORY air cleaner.
FACTORY exhaust manifold.
EGR should be there, and fully functional.
I THINK they had an air pump (smog pump), gulp valve, air injection lines to the exhaust or the proper head.

Like I said earlier, I HOPE you can do all this yourself.
Finding those missing bits can be interesting.
California may check casting numbers on manifolds, heads, carb and distributor.

You need a definitive list of exactly what that car came equipped with, part numbers and casting numbers.

I've done these kind of things beefore to get cars through emissions, and it takes a lot of time, and a lot of money.

Not trying to put you off your game, just trying to give you a heads-up on what you may be up against.

For this stage, it has to "look" right.
Next stage, is it has to test right.
And, the more you put on that engine, the more anemic it will become.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Charcoal cannister.
PCV.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

Thermactor snorkel and hot air tube from air inlet on air filter to the box on the exhaust manifold.

Nigel at www.spitbits.com may be your best hope on parts.
What's your VIN?
Up to FM80001 air pump, after, no air, both used air injection rails, different parts, different valving.

https://www.spitbits.com/1500catalog.pdf

Go to pages 12 and 13.

 

[TR3driver]

California may check casting numbers on manifolds, heads, carb and distributor.

Nah, that information isn't even in the database. And as I mentioned before, the actual test stations have gotten pretty casual about the visual inspection, as long as the dyno sniffer tests all pass. I know folks that routinely get passed with the wrong carb and tubular headers (not CARB approved, although some are). But of course they have to have all the important other pieces hooked up and working in order to pass the sniffer.

Ironically enough, though, my buddy with the CARB-legal blower on his Miata was always getting hassled. The shops would take one look at that blower and refuse to have anything to do with the car, no matter how many approval stickers and letters he had. He finally had to go to a referee and get them to write a nasty letter to a particular smog shop, to get them to test the car.

 

[Gafirema]

Thanks everyone. I have no idea how much all of this will cost, what it will entail or what I'll do, or what will become of me. How hard would it be to put all those things on myself with some basic tools in my garage? Also, once they're all on I doubt the car will run right, if at all, how much do you think a shop would charge to tune it to where it will run with the original parts? If I get a cat-converter at a shop + installation what do you think the minimum price I'd be looking at is (if I'm lucky)?

Yet another new problem has arose as well. It would seem as though the guy forgot to sign the very back of the title, we also didn't use an official bill of sale, just notebook paper which we were told would be okay. I tried calling him tonight but he didn't pick up the phone, might just be at work (he said he works nights) so I left him an E-mail and a phone message.

Jeez, if I get all this worked out I think I'm just going to buy a 50cc scooter and tell everyone (except for the kind people who've helped me through this, including those here) to go jump in a lake. I'll gladly drive it down the 50mph streets at 30 with a big grin on my face and maybe some choice bumper stickers.

I love this little car to death, I wish things didn't have to be so complicated.

 

[Scott_Hower]

First things first.

First step is to find out what you have installed and what you can get your hands on from the previous owner. Until you have a baseline to work with, you are really flying blind. There may a reason the PO removed the old Stromberg, so even if you can source it, plan on a rebuild; no biggie.

Pop the hood and snap a photo of each side of your engine bay. Post them here and we'll tell you what you need.

 

[tdskip]

Randall and Scott nailed this. CA doesn't require a bill of sale, signed title is enough.

Send the pics along, we'll do a gap analysis and we can take it from there.

Now would be a good time to join the local TR club, and if you get really stuck there are a couple of use around in SD/OC that can pitch in.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

California may check casting numbers on manifolds, heads, carb and distributor.

Nah, that information isn't even in the database. And as I mentioned before, the actual test stations have gotten pretty casual about the visual inspection, as long as the dyno sniffer tests all pass. I know folks that routinely get passed with the wrong carb and tubular headers (not CARB approved, although some are). But of course they have to have all the important other pieces hooked up and working in order to pass the sniffer.

Funny. Up here, they do have some of that in their database (or did).
And, in meetings we were required to attend, they quoted California as the King of retained data, quoting specifics like distributor numbers, manifold casting numbers, carb tags.

Of course, once this state quit looking to California as the leader in emissions, started thinking on their own, and set the 25-year-rule, older data is probably gone.

I have a book around here, probably, that was the field reference guide for what was supposed to be on the vehicle.
If there was a question, it got the big book treatment.

 

[TR3driver]

Funny. Up here, they do have some of that in their database (or did).

Well, let me qualify that. What I should have said is that the people doing the test don't have the information. The state might have it; but all the test technicians "know" is what is on the computer screen (it's all computerized now), and the computer doesn't ask anything about casting numbers, or induction systems or anything. And the "field reference" I saw only had basic information like engine size, carburetor/injection type, EGR/air pump/catalyst present, etc. That was for a 1976 model, but I believe it covered through 1980.

And I don't believe the technician could actually read the words in the book. He had asked what engine size I had, and was trying to just use the first line he found for that engine (which was the source of our argument, he wanted to flunk my Class-A motorhome because it didn't meet passenger car limits). OTOH, in his defense, my motorhome was not listed in the book, and he just didn't know the difference between a Dodge 440 and a 440-3. The MH wasn't in the on-line database either (which is why he was using the book).

 

[Deleted member 8987]

If I knew the VIN of the car in question, I could be a little more specific. The links I provided show what was on the car. Cats are a different number for CA and FED.
If this has been fully de-smogged, carb, air cleaner, thermactor and hot air tube, diverter valves and brackets, air pump (if equipped) and brackets, injector tubes and if the exhaust manifold has been changed to eliminate the ports, cat, any and all TVS, hoses, check valves, it's going to take a bit of work to A) find it all and B) get it all on and functioning (how many times have you found a junk yard air pump that actually turned?).
And even with all the stuff on it, it may not pass.

Tweak the carb, tweak the timing, put a 195 t-stat in it, and it STILL might not pass.

That's why I know that if the vehicle was accepted by the Fed EPA for importation with readings higher than those listed in "the book", you have to have documentation for that, and where you would find that now, I have no idea.

I ran into folks who HAD that documentation from new, and did present it at testing.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

One other thing......I remember getting memos from the State EPA, about sources for emissions bits that were broken or missing.
Our problem was, we initially had a "sliding year scale", then they changed that to a fixed year. While it was sliding-scale, a lot of the broken, burned out emissions bits disappeared, Fiats, especially.
When we reverted to a fixed year (1968, I think), suddenly those things had to be there, as they instituted an underhood inspection first.
We had a lot of arguments, as some of those cars would pass a tailpipe test with flying colours without all that garbage, but fail miserably with it on. But, no, bureaucracy would not allow sensible testing.

Anyway, these "memos" listed places that had all the parts to bring these vehicles up to spec.

Most were in California.
So, you'd call them, and they never, ever had any part needed, and no idea where to find said parts.

The State had somehow discovered that someone had gotten a part once from these guys, and now it was their "mandate" that parts made of unobtainium could be easily had there.

To compound the issue, we had only certain urban areas that were tested.
So, you drive 10 miles up the road, you are no longer in a testing zone.
Suddenly, cars got re-registered in those areas.
State had to hire "inspectors" to drive by and insure these vehicles were "primarily garaged" in those zones, which none were.

When caught, said vehicle HAD to pass, no exemptions.

Then, they made it state-wide, and 10 years later re-instituted a "sliding year scale".

I could tell you about California roadside emissions tests, and how that changed our view on older cars being gross polluters, but that's for the next post.

Dave

 

[Gafirema]

Here are the pictures you fine folks asked for. I got ahold of the seller as well and he said he was sorry that he forgot to sign the last signature on the title, he's coming down friday to do so and to bring me any parts he has for the car, I'll see then what all it is he can bring me.

Here's the engine pictures.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

BIG problem.
Tube headers.
Has the air injection tubes, good, but not tube headers.
You need the cast iron manifold, EGR, can't see in the photos whether you have the EGR port in the intake.


VIN?

 

[Deleted member 8987]

If you still have the title, think about selling it before you start the irreversible California process, someplace out-of-state that doesn't care about emissions.
Or, take up the offer on all the emissions stuff previously listed.

 

[AngliaGT]

You might also find a factory shop manual,or even something
like the Moss catalog might have an illustration of what you need-
maybe even part numbers.
I have the parts catalogs for the TR6,& they show the differ-
ent emissions,by year.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

And, I posted the link to spitbits earlier, and if you go to the pages, you can see what parts are required AND the part numbers.

Plus, with tube headers, I can almost guarantee there is no cat in the system. Nobody, even a Texan, would whack all the emissions, install tube headers and a Weber, and leave the cat.