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TR2/3/3A Bleeding the Slave Cylinder
- Thread starter Redoakboo
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CJD
Yoda
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Dick,
Honestly, I think a lot of your problems would be resolved if you will follow along with my TR2 "recipe" thread. Here is a link to the thread, page #3. Scroll down until you see post #43 on the right side. This entire post is about setting the clutch adjustment, and it has very easy to see pictures of how to install the slave cylinder and easy to follow directions. If you scroll earlier in the thread, you will see the same for the TR2 master cylinder.
www.britishcarforum.com
This thread photo documents the entire assembly of a TR2, from a bare frame to a complete, driving car.
Honestly, I think a lot of your problems would be resolved if you will follow along with my TR2 "recipe" thread. Here is a link to the thread, page #3. Scroll down until you see post #43 on the right side. This entire post is about setting the clutch adjustment, and it has very easy to see pictures of how to install the slave cylinder and easy to follow directions. If you scroll earlier in the thread, you will see the same for the TR2 master cylinder.
TR2/3/3A - Recipe for a TR2
X2 on taking the time for pictures. Just finishing my engine up and my stock of photos plus yours should see everything going back together seamlessly... well, hopefully :)
www.britishcarforum.com
This thread photo documents the entire assembly of a TR2, from a bare frame to a complete, driving car.
Last edited:
CJD
Yoda
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Next, here is a link to imgur:
Take a couple minutes to set up a free account. You can then upload pictures to imgur. To post a picture here on the forum, just:
1 view the picture you uploaded on imgur.
2 on the right of the picture is a list of options, go down to the option for "BBCode" and select "copy" next to it.
3 Now come back to the forum and use a "ctrl V" to place the picture into your post where the cursor is.
We are to the point you will have to start posting pics of what you have for us to help you.
Take a couple minutes to set up a free account. You can then upload pictures to imgur. To post a picture here on the forum, just:
1 view the picture you uploaded on imgur.
2 on the right of the picture is a list of options, go down to the option for "BBCode" and select "copy" next to it.
3 Now come back to the forum and use a "ctrl V" to place the picture into your post where the cursor is.
We are to the point you will have to start posting pics of what you have for us to help you.
John, I went back to P-3 Post 43 Could see no pic's How do I bring up your "recipe" ?I found your suspension recipe?Dick,
Honestly, I think a lot of your problems would be resolved if you will follow along with my TR2 "recipe" thread. Here is a link to the thread, page #3. Scroll down until you see post #43 on the right side. This entire post is about setting the clutch adjustment, and it has very easy to see pictures of how to install the slave cylinder and easy to follow directions. If you scroll earlier in the thread, you will see the same for the TR2 master cylinder.
TR2/3/3A - Recipe for a TR2
X2 on taking the time for pictures. Just finishing my engine up and my stock of photos plus yours should see everything going back together seamlessly... well, hopefully :)
This thread photo documents the entire assembly of a TR2, from a bare frame to a complete, driving car.
Last edited:
John, Found it! Dick
Graham, I disconnected the rod from the lever. I could not push the rod to bottom the piston. I opened the bleeder and had helper push the clutch, pedal went to the floor. I closed the bleed valve and had helper push the clutch. The first one or two pushes the rod moved nicely through the range, had it been connected to the lever. Then it got harder and harder to push the pedal until it barely moved the rod? HELP!
Graham H
Jedi Warrior
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Dick, if you don't have the rod connected to the leaver there is no return pressure to push the piston back so it just keeps pushing out until it can't go any further and the pedal has nowhere to go. When you say you can't push the piston in until the bleeder is opened that sounds like a problem in the master cylinder either the piston has no free play or there is a nonreturn valve or something stopping the fluid from returning to the master cylinder.
Graham
Graham
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is the SC hose collapsing and acting as a non return - i had this on a daimler SP250 front brake- hose looked fine but locked ups calliper.
CJD
Yoda
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Dick,
I have given some very detailed directions, but each time you do not respond with how the directions worked. Instead, you do something completely different from the directions or the service manual, and then describe what happened afterwards. You must follow the service manual directions, which are the same directions a lot of us have offered.
Pumping the pedal with the SC disconnected is going to damage the SC.
If you follow the pictures in the "recipe" thread I provided, the procedure shown there is straight out of the manual. Follow it and your system will work. If it does not, then you have a problem with your newly rebuilt master cylinder.
Now that your system is moving fluid, you do not need to pump the pedal to bleed it. Just crack the bleeder screw 1/2 turn and the fluid and air will vent, driven by gravity. If you bleed by pumping incorrectly you run the risk of sucking air into the bleeder and end up worse than when you started. Just crack the bleeder and watch the air expel. Use a clear hose to see it better.
Finally...the SC never needs to travel full range. It only ever moves 1/2 to 2/3 full travel. Watching it move when disconnected is an interesting science project, but meaningless in getting your car working right.
I have given some very detailed directions, but each time you do not respond with how the directions worked. Instead, you do something completely different from the directions or the service manual, and then describe what happened afterwards. You must follow the service manual directions, which are the same directions a lot of us have offered.
Pumping the pedal with the SC disconnected is going to damage the SC.
If you follow the pictures in the "recipe" thread I provided, the procedure shown there is straight out of the manual. Follow it and your system will work. If it does not, then you have a problem with your newly rebuilt master cylinder.
Now that your system is moving fluid, you do not need to pump the pedal to bleed it. Just crack the bleeder screw 1/2 turn and the fluid and air will vent, driven by gravity. If you bleed by pumping incorrectly you run the risk of sucking air into the bleeder and end up worse than when you started. Just crack the bleeder and watch the air expel. Use a clear hose to see it better.
Finally...the SC never needs to travel full range. It only ever moves 1/2 to 2/3 full travel. Watching it move when disconnected is an interesting science project, but meaningless in getting your car working right.
John,
Sorry, I have about 5 members sending me different ways of solving my problem. Question for you? If the rod is connected to the lever, at my starting point, what would cause the pedal to become harder and harder to push, with a cooresponding shorting of the rods range?I am assuming during this procedure, the exterior spring should be connected?
Maybe look at this problem of rod length this way. When you move the shaft in the trans bellhousing back and forth, realize the noise is the “throw out bearing” hitting those 3 little clutch forks, so move the adjustment on the rod 1/10 of an inch away so the “throw out bearing” does not rub on the forks and you will hear that little click that is good-- hook up a weak spring and the SC adjusted stop.
Now see if there enough length left on the rod to push those 3 forks in enough to release the clutch. I do not know the exact number, but the shaft probably moves about an inch. That should do it-- and if not-- the rod is too short. Moss basically sells a tr3 rod and you cut it to fit your tr2 car because of the short SC. My guess is about 3 ½ to 4 inches of rod for a tr2.
The pedal will get hard and not go down all the way if you keep pumping it like car brakes.
I would say in your case their is enough air out of SC to make the system work because the pedal gets hard when pumping.
Perhaps the MS does not have enough push or the rod is too short if it is still not working.
A too long rod would move everything out too much and the TOB would rub on the Clutch forks all the time and either slip the clutch or wear out it out quick
hope this helps
steve
Now see if there enough length left on the rod to push those 3 forks in enough to release the clutch. I do not know the exact number, but the shaft probably moves about an inch. That should do it-- and if not-- the rod is too short. Moss basically sells a tr3 rod and you cut it to fit your tr2 car because of the short SC. My guess is about 3 ½ to 4 inches of rod for a tr2.
The pedal will get hard and not go down all the way if you keep pumping it like car brakes.
I would say in your case their is enough air out of SC to make the system work because the pedal gets hard when pumping.
Perhaps the MS does not have enough push or the rod is too short if it is still not working.
A too long rod would move everything out too much and the TOB would rub on the Clutch forks all the time and either slip the clutch or wear out it out quick
hope this helps
steve
Today I followed your recipe, tomorrow i will see if I have made any progress.
- I have set up the adjusting rod with no play between the fork
-The piston is bottomed out and the TOB is touching the clutch forks
-Adjust the lock nut .030
-Screw the rod towards the fork and tighten the nut
-Reattached the spring, opened the bleeder for a gravity bleed.
Hi John, I am sure that all the air had to be out of the line. I took the spring off, put the tube back on the bleeder and pulled the rod back and forth, it is covering the working range. Still had a little air to get rid of.
Closed the bleeder and re-installed the spring. Got in the car and pressed the clutch. The first pump or two it moved back and forth nicely. But, after the third or forth push, the pedal got harder and the rod moved back and forth less ,with each push.
Now if I depress the clutch, it only goes down about 4" and the rod moves back and forth about half the range it should?
Have I ruined your recipe?
Closed the bleeder and re-installed the spring. Got in the car and pressed the clutch. The first pump or two it moved back and forth nicely. But, after the third or forth push, the pedal got harder and the rod moved back and forth less ,with each push.
Now if I depress the clutch, it only goes down about 4" and the rod moves back and forth about half the range it should?
Have I ruined your recipe?
That is ok the pedal should build up pressure; it is hydraulic linkage. Now is the time to start the car put in gear and drive it. If the clutch pedal does not release the clutch, then pump it once and see where the pedal is. You cannot just pump the clutch because is not manual linkage it is vintage hydraulic 1954. I guess I have driven a lot of beaters.
steve
steve
CJD
Yoda
Offline
From the sounds of it your whole underside is set and ready to go. Pumping up would be a master cylinder issue, but like Steve says, It might be best to wait until you can take a test drive. So, good job getting it all adjusted properly!
If you want to double check your master cylinder, just make sure the piston returns fully to the lock ring when you release the pedal. You will have to peal the rubber boot back to see it operating. The adjustment to the pedal should allow the piston to fully return. If that is good, then I think you are ready to drive!
If you want to double check your master cylinder, just make sure the piston returns fully to the lock ring when you release the pedal. You will have to peal the rubber boot back to see it operating. The adjustment to the pedal should allow the piston to fully return. If that is good, then I think you are ready to drive!
Struck out again today. I cranked the car up, attempted to push the clutch in. It went about 2" down and the lever moved about half the distance it should have gone. No luck in trying to shift to first, only grinding sounds?
I will now follow your suggestion on the master cylinder. I can't believe it is the problem as I did re-build the clutch side?
I will now follow your suggestion on the master cylinder. I can't believe it is the problem as I did re-build the clutch side?
I checked the MC, piston is returning as you suggested??